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hey y'all Ryan Sprague here as you all

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know this summer in the skies podcast is

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always free to consume but it isn't free

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and to learn more visit WWE universe

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skies thank you for your support

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and now on with the show today on the

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show a 20 year top-secret CIA run

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program that involved remote viewing an

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extrasensory perception you paid for the

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program and you deserve to know about it

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this is somewhere in the sky's the

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Branzburg

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welcome to somewhere in the skies I'm

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your host Ryan Sprague a psychic spy

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program developed during the cold war

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escalated after a Stanford Research

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Institute experiment publicized

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classified Intel as a result the highly

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successful work of physicist Russell

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Targ was co-opted by the CIA and hidden

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for decades due to the demands of

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national security but when America's

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greatest psychic spy dies mysteriously

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torg fights to get their work

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Declassified even if it means going

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directly to his former enemies in the

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Soviet Union to prove the reality of ESP

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to the world revealed for the very first

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time this is the newly declassified true

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story of America's psychic spies the

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implications of their success shows us

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all what we are truly capable of this is

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the premise for Lance mungus new

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documentary third eye spots which we'll

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be talking about with him today

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Lance has directed two theatrical

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features for Lionsgate and dimension

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films and also is the director of the

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cult indie hit six string samurai he's

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won multiple awards and his films have

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played at Sundance Slamdance Toronto

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Seattle and other major international

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so without further ado let's talk to

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Lance munguia about third eye spies

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Lance thank you so much for joining me

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today on somewhere in the skies

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Orion you know thank you for having me

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man this has been a an anticipated event

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that I'm really looking forward to yeah

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it definitely has trying to get this

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interview together is gosh probably his

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heart is actually remote viewing so I'm

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so happy it's happening I've seen the

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film twice now third eye spies that's

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what we're gonna be talking about all

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about tonight remote viewing is it's a

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whole new topic for me honestly men

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we've never covered it on the show

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before some of my listeners might be

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familiar with it but um yeah could you

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maybe just give us maybe the the

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elevator pitch to what remote viewing is

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before we even get into how this film

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came about so third eye spies covers a

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20 year history of government

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involvement with a phenomenon known as

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remote viewing

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things throughout history it's it's it's

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not a new thing you know people have

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always had intuitive abilities and and

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people have always been able to sort of

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use them you know for for outcomes but

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in the modern era you know this is

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called now remote viewing the term was

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actually coined by a man by the name of

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Ingo Swann who at the time was

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considered the greatest psychic in the

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world you know who was doing experiments

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and his psychic abilities at Stanford

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Research Institute Stanford Research

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Institute was giving him you know simple

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guns fell you know card tricks to do

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where it's like guess what's in the

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envelope and that kind of thing and an

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Ingo being sort of a showman and and you

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know very ambitious said you know this

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is dumb that you're giving me these card

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tricks I can see anywhere in the world

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using my psychic abilities why don't you

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give me something better to do and so

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they started sending someone around Palo

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Alto to hide on coffee breaks just to

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humor him and in great detail he would

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describe the environment that the person

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was in and even draw sometimes pictures

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of that so what remote viewing is is the

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act of using only your

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mind to be able to sense view or

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otherwise describe hidden objects people

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or places that are unavailable to be

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seen by any other means you know and

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that is a skill that takes place outside

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of space and time and that's in a

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nutshell what remote viewing is right

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outside of space and time I look forward

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to digging into that a little bit later

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but that that was a great pitch man now

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I got it now we can move on with what

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the film was truly about third eye spies

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but first what is your origin story

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Lance how did this opportunity to make

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this film come about how'd you get

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connected with your centerpiece Russell

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Targ as well well you know the psychic

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abilities is something that have always

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interested me because I think as human

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beings we all have intuitive flashes of

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insight and you know we go left instead

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of right I mean the car misses us and

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you know stuff like that is something

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that always happens and we often just

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sort of discount as coincidence or

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craziness or something like that and I

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was really no different I'd experienced

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it in my life

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but I had always sort of remained kind

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of skeptical because I think our egos

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kind of goes yeah I don't want to be

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fooled by this I don't want to I'm not

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gonna play this game you know I know how

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these things can be faked and etc but I

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was still sort of a always into sort of

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the the UFO field into sort of sci-fi

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into any kind of really sort of

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paranormal stuff I always loved just as

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a fan of it and I had read some about

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Russell Targ and in the early

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experiments that were done at Stanford

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Research Institute but I didn't really

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understand just how much work was done

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actually for the federal government you

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know using psychics to spy and I

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actually got a phone call randomly from

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a friend who knew Russell Targ and at

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the time I had just started my youtube

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channel

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waking universe TV and I was doing a

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sort of a public-access II you know talk

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show where I would just invite people

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who were interested in sort of where

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science and spirit sort of coincided

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because I was looking for sort of

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grounded ways to kind of explain all of

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the

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kind of phenomenon to myself really you

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know I was I was it was really just a

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way of me taking classes in sort of

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understanding the mysteries of the world

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you know I was already kind of on a sort

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of a spiritual journey sort of looking

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within myself to try to just figure out

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who I was as a human being I mean it was

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something that was just concerning me at

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the time and I've been doing a lot of

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reading and then all of the sudden here

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comes Russell Targ on the phone you know

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and he's pitching me a script and and

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and it wasn't a script about remote

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viewing it wasn't about his history at

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Stanford Research Institute it was

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actually about a Native American boy

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that had psychic abilities and was

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trying to deal with that and you know as

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a script that he had written was someone

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else and was interested in getting

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developed because I think he felt like

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he'd kind of come to the end of the road

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in writing books because he had written

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so many books over the years on ESP and

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I think he felt like he had never really

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been able to crack into the real true

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mainstream public consciousness as to

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what this really was and sort of the

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immensity of the work that he had been

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involved with because really he had been

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hindered for many years by the

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classification of a lot of his research

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a lot of the kind of the greatest things

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that he had done as a scientist with

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help hood off and the rest of the team

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at SSRI and other agencies you know it

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had been suppressed

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you know purposefully you know to be

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classified for operational use and and

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he fought for years to get it

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Declassified he had done so he had some

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meetings around Hollywood not not had

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any takers and in sort of doing a much

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bigger film and so it wasn't even really

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his first thought to make something

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about SR I he was he was thinking about

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something totally different but luckily

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I knew who he was and I knew some of his

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work you know and so I didn't just

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discount what he was saying and and we

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wound up talking on the phone for I

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think three hours this was back in know

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many years ago and and we really hit it

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off and and I and I said you know look I

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just think that I'm happy to look at

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your script I'm happy to give you notes

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you know but I but I really think that

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the really truly important story here is

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your work that you did studying psychic

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research and and and the work you did

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for the government because it's such

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wonderful proof

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that something like ESP is really you

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know truly real you know and and I

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didn't know probably 80% of what he had

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done at that point I was just going off

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of sort of the public reporting at the

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time and he said well you know that's

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very interesting he said you know my

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good friend Ingo Swann died last year

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you know and he was one of the original

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remote viewers that you know that did

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all this work and he said I'm very

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concerned that a lot of the people that

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were involved are getting older and you

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know they may not be here to tell this

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story so they don't so I was intriguing

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if you're interested in it it's just why

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don't I come out to LA and we'll talk

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about it so he comes out with just boxes

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of I mean he's you know a giant

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briefcase with all of these folders and

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and you know stuff with with photographs

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and you know documents that were marked

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you know classified and all this stuff

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that that it's like literally you know

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meeting some spy in a dark alley giving

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you the microfilm you know and I'm

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starting to wonder like oh my gosh am I

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gonna get in trouble for this you know

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is this is this something that I'm

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getting over my head on because the you

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know we even in that first weekend we

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actually did discuss the sort of pros

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and cons of making a movie on this

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subject matter because we didn't know

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what was being done in classified

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circles today and we didn't know if we'd

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be stepping on anyone's toes or asking

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the wrong questions and I mean I mean I

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think I remember after the first day of

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being with him you know he had shown me

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this picture of a crane in Soviet

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Siberia that one of his remote viewers

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Pat price had had had nailed I mean

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impossibly like you know there's no

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judging required there's no if and err

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but this guy drew an exact replica you

274
00:11:17,710 --> 00:11:15,530
know and and several other things like

275
00:11:19,330 --> 00:11:17,720
that you know submarines and schematics

276
00:11:22,180 --> 00:11:19,340
and things that had been done

277
00:11:23,740 --> 00:11:22,190
intuitively that matched real things

278
00:11:26,170 --> 00:11:23,750
that had been been verified by

279
00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:26,180
government and I went to bed that night

280
00:11:30,010 --> 00:11:28,130
and I thought I know I knew something

281
00:11:32,290 --> 00:11:30,020
about this but it was is this guy just

282
00:11:34,210 --> 00:11:32,300
like sitting at home making all of this

283
00:11:36,550 --> 00:11:34,220
stuff up I mean I mean like where does

284
00:11:39,190 --> 00:11:36,560
this come from it's so incredible that

285
00:11:41,970 --> 00:11:39,200
that it's impossible that nobody else is

286
00:11:44,410 --> 00:11:41,980
talking about this in the mainstream and

287
00:11:45,610 --> 00:11:44,420
you know and I and I had looked up some

288
00:11:47,890 --> 00:11:45,620
things about remote viewing and there

289
00:11:49,210 --> 00:11:47,900
was a lot of sort of hemming and hawing

290
00:11:52,059 --> 00:11:49,220
about it online

291
00:11:54,100 --> 00:11:52,069
in Wikipedia and places like that and it

292
00:11:57,040 --> 00:11:54,110
wasn't until like the last day we were

293
00:11:59,259 --> 00:11:57,050
together that he got to all to him was

294
00:12:01,389 --> 00:11:59,269
the boring stuff you know like the fact

295
00:12:03,429 --> 00:12:01,399
that there was congressional hearings

296
00:12:06,369 --> 00:12:03,439
and that they had you know senators and

297
00:12:07,990 --> 00:12:06,379
you know House of Representatives people

298
00:12:09,790 --> 00:12:08,000
and you know cabinet officials and even

299
00:12:12,850 --> 00:12:09,800
a president that had worked with them on

300
00:12:15,009 --> 00:12:12,860
these things and and and all of that had

301
00:12:17,710 --> 00:12:15,019
been Declassified you know that you

302
00:12:19,749 --> 00:12:17,720
could actually go find that and that's

303
00:12:21,639 --> 00:12:19,759
when I really said okay so if it's

304
00:12:24,790 --> 00:12:21,649
Declassified then the only way I'm gonna

305
00:12:28,269 --> 00:12:24,800
do this film is if we can get a plethora

306
00:12:30,220 --> 00:12:28,279
of witnesses you know I mean to go get

307
00:12:32,019 --> 00:12:30,230
all of the people who were involved in

308
00:12:34,119 --> 00:12:32,029
this work that has not that have not

309
00:12:37,179 --> 00:12:34,129
really come together in one place and

310
00:12:38,980 --> 00:12:37,189
told this story because it's such an

311
00:12:40,809 --> 00:12:38,990
incredible story that even though you

312
00:12:43,059 --> 00:12:40,819
know I I can hear you talk about it I

313
00:12:45,309 --> 00:12:43,069
can read your book I can maybe find a

314
00:12:47,910 --> 00:12:45,319
video from Joe mcmoneagle on YouTube or

315
00:12:51,699 --> 00:12:47,920
something like that but those people

316
00:12:53,860 --> 00:12:51,709
speaking by themselves lack the weight

317
00:12:57,579 --> 00:12:53,870
of history you know they lack the the

318
00:12:59,319 --> 00:12:57,589
the weight of sort of one collective

319
00:13:00,819 --> 00:12:59,329
voice saying yes this really happened

320
00:13:02,530 --> 00:13:00,829
and I think we really need that and he

321
00:13:04,449 --> 00:13:02,540
agreed with me so we embarked on a

322
00:13:05,799 --> 00:13:04,459
several month you know notion of just

323
00:13:08,110 --> 00:13:05,809
sort of trying to reach out and contact

324
00:13:10,780 --> 00:13:08,120
these people and seeing who would be

325
00:13:12,699 --> 00:13:10,790
interested in I I spent months going

326
00:13:15,009 --> 00:13:12,709
back and forth with mrs. pett especially

327
00:13:16,329 --> 00:13:15,019
like the CIA guys that were involved in

328
00:13:17,530 --> 00:13:16,339
this you know they everybody really

329
00:13:20,350 --> 00:13:17,540
wanted to know they weren't going to be

330
00:13:22,150 --> 00:13:20,360
treated you know marginally or made fun

331
00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:22,160
of and you know that this would be a

332
00:13:27,759 --> 00:13:25,610
serious project and and that they would

333
00:13:30,249 --> 00:13:27,769
be taken seriously because I think that

334
00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:30,259
they all had been sort of burnt at one

335
00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:31,490
point or another in their personal

336
00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:34,370
careers by this and in fact I remember a

337
00:13:38,170 --> 00:13:36,170
really good friend of mine a successful

338
00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:38,180
filmmaker actually who I sort of ran

339
00:13:41,980 --> 00:13:40,370
this by when I was first contemplating

340
00:13:42,850 --> 00:13:41,990
doing the project and he said I said you

341
00:13:43,420 --> 00:13:42,860
know I'm thinking about doing this thing

342
00:13:46,090 --> 00:13:43,430
on

343
00:13:48,819 --> 00:13:46,100
remote viewing and you know psychics for

344
00:13:50,699 --> 00:13:48,829
the army and you know this kind of thing

345
00:13:53,199 --> 00:13:50,709
and he goes oh I know all about that

346
00:13:54,460 --> 00:13:53,209
that's a waste of time I researched that

347
00:13:56,019 --> 00:13:54,470
I was thinking about writing a project

348
00:13:58,780 --> 00:13:56,029
about that and it there was just nothing

349
00:14:00,400 --> 00:13:58,790
to it and minoo don't do this you're

350
00:14:02,650 --> 00:14:00,410
gonna ruin your reputation it's gonna be

351
00:14:03,940 --> 00:14:02,660
horrible and I thought you know

352
00:14:05,890 --> 00:14:03,950
I'm gonna point in my life I don't

353
00:14:07,450 --> 00:14:05,900
really care and and and he wasn't

354
00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:07,460
looking at the same information that I

355
00:14:13,090 --> 00:14:11,090
had and and and knowing Russell so I

356
00:14:16,870 --> 00:14:13,100
just sort of said you know let's do it

357
00:14:19,900 --> 00:14:16,880
so so that began a very long process of

358
00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:19,910
sort of shooting where and just winding

359
00:14:24,790 --> 00:14:21,650
up with me being sort of the very

360
00:14:26,110 --> 00:14:24,800
primary person doing an immense amount

361
00:14:28,450 --> 00:14:26,120
of work because if we wanted up I think

362
00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:28,460
something like I don't know 50 or 60

363
00:14:32,170 --> 00:14:30,650
interviews with people not all of which

364
00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:32,180
could even make it into the film because

365
00:14:35,470 --> 00:14:33,770
we just you know we'd gathered so much

366
00:14:38,140 --> 00:14:35,480
information by the end of the day right

367
00:14:40,450 --> 00:14:38,150
and I can only assume you know what was

368
00:14:43,780 --> 00:14:40,460
left unfortunately on the cutting room

369
00:14:45,370 --> 00:14:43,790
floor is it's hard because there's so

370
00:14:48,430 --> 00:14:45,380
much to all this like you said I mean

371
00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:48,440
there's this is a part of history that

372
00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:50,570
not many people know about and it's

373
00:14:57,100 --> 00:14:54,530
almost supposed to be that way according

374
00:14:59,860 --> 00:14:57,110
to the CIA and the intelligence agencies

375
00:15:01,830 --> 00:14:59,870
they didn't want us knowing about this I

376
00:15:06,430 --> 00:15:01,840
mean some of it was Declassified

377
00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:06,440
eventually but how did the CIA get

378
00:15:09,910 --> 00:15:07,850
involved with this Lance how'd they get

379
00:15:12,250 --> 00:15:09,920
involved with Russell Targ I know how

380
00:15:14,410 --> 00:15:12,260
put off is kind of a primary player in

381
00:15:16,810 --> 00:15:14,420
all this as well and we all know him in

382
00:15:19,510 --> 00:15:16,820
the UFO field right now he's one of our

383
00:15:22,270 --> 00:15:19,520
key players right now yes how did this

384
00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:22,280
happen well you know Russell and help it

385
00:15:27,610 --> 00:15:24,890
off were the cofounders of this ESP

386
00:15:31,810 --> 00:15:27,620
study project that at Stanford Research

387
00:15:33,850 --> 00:15:31,820
Institute where this started and ESP has

388
00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:33,860
been studied for you know many many

389
00:15:37,810 --> 00:15:36,170
decades all over the world I mean you

390
00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:37,820
know you know Duke University in

391
00:15:40,630 --> 00:15:38,330
Princeton

392
00:15:42,550 --> 00:15:40,640
you know the para lab I mean you know

393
00:15:44,710 --> 00:15:42,560
they they had done work that exactly

394
00:15:47,620 --> 00:15:44,720
replicated what SR I was doing in the

395
00:15:49,900 --> 00:15:47,630
70s but it was all sort of very small

396
00:15:51,700 --> 00:15:49,910
confined small effect size they were

397
00:15:54,580 --> 00:15:51,710
doing incredibly simple experiments

398
00:15:58,870 --> 00:15:54,590
there was no money in it and and where

399
00:16:00,520 --> 00:15:58,880
Russell and how he'll put off got sort

400
00:16:04,420 --> 00:16:00,530
of a leg up was that they were both

401
00:16:07,030 --> 00:16:04,430
already physicists working for CIA and

402
00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:07,040
NASA and other agencies on classified

403
00:16:10,990 --> 00:16:08,930
projects not having anything to do with

404
00:16:13,110 --> 00:16:11,000
anything paranormal but basically with

405
00:16:15,180 --> 00:16:13,120
lasers they were laser physicist and

406
00:16:16,650 --> 00:16:15,190
Russell

407
00:16:18,690 --> 00:16:16,660
one of the pioneers that invented the

408
00:16:20,370 --> 00:16:18,700
first high-powered laser the first

409
00:16:24,030 --> 00:16:20,380
thousand watt laser came out of his lab

410
00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:24,040
and you know he actually had a fire

411
00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:25,810
brick in his lap and he had a bunch of

412
00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:27,010
government officials come in and they

413
00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:28,210
had told him previously that it was

414
00:16:33,390 --> 00:16:31,210
impossible to burn a hole through a fire

415
00:16:35,490 --> 00:16:33,400
brick with a laser and Russell put the

416
00:16:37,140 --> 00:16:35,500
laser the brick down and he burned a

417
00:16:38,250 --> 00:16:37,150
hole through it and he kind of handed

418
00:16:42,870 --> 00:16:38,260
them the fire brick and he said would

419
00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:42,880
you like some fries with that yeah he

420
00:16:48,660 --> 00:16:46,810
really is and and you know that was sort

421
00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:48,670
of their entree into the classified

422
00:16:52,170 --> 00:16:50,410
world cuz they were already trusted and

423
00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:52,180
especially how put-off was a company man

424
00:16:57,450 --> 00:16:54,610
I mean he was a guy who had worked for

425
00:17:00,840 --> 00:16:57,460
you know naval intelligence and you know

426
00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:00,850
he was in the Naval Reserve still and

427
00:17:05,819 --> 00:17:03,250
you know he had a lot of sort of

428
00:17:08,970 --> 00:17:05,829
classifications already as did Russell

429
00:17:11,370 --> 00:17:08,980
they were both trusted and the thing is

430
00:17:13,829 --> 00:17:11,380
you know first of all Russell tried

431
00:17:15,750 --> 00:17:13,839
doing ESP research as far back as his

432
00:17:18,449 --> 00:17:15,760
time at Sylvania lasers he'd actually

433
00:17:21,689 --> 00:17:18,459
convinced them to do some ESP research

434
00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:21,699
and he had created this ESP training

435
00:17:25,860 --> 00:17:23,890
machine which is like this big black box

436
00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:25,870
that has a random number generator

437
00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:27,010
inside like one of the earliest

438
00:17:31,500 --> 00:17:29,170
computers and you know the participant

439
00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:31,510
hits a button depending upon where they

440
00:17:35,610 --> 00:17:32,530
think that the random number generator

441
00:17:36,990 --> 00:17:35,620
is gonna go next and and he would find

442
00:17:40,190 --> 00:17:37,000
that people could improve their scores

443
00:17:42,420 --> 00:17:40,200
and he got Sylvania to back this and

444
00:17:46,620 --> 00:17:42,430
then they needed to put out an ad for

445
00:17:47,790 --> 00:17:46,630
test subjects and and so he he thinks

446
00:17:49,740 --> 00:17:47,800
they're gonna put it out under some sort

447
00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:49,750
of guise as like you know we just need

448
00:17:54,120 --> 00:17:51,730
to study participants for an experiment

449
00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:54,130
but not say for what but they screwed up

450
00:17:57,480 --> 00:17:55,810
and they put out an ad saying we need

451
00:17:59,430 --> 00:17:57,490
subjects for experiments and

452
00:18:02,160 --> 00:17:59,440
extrasensory perception and psychic

453
00:18:04,740 --> 00:18:02,170
abilities and of course the skeptics at

454
00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:04,750
the time just pounced on that and and

455
00:18:06,780 --> 00:18:06,010
there were a lot of you know very

456
00:18:09,120 --> 00:18:06,790
dogmatic

457
00:18:11,820 --> 00:18:09,130
religious and scientific skeptics of

458
00:18:14,670 --> 00:18:11,830
this phenomenon so what wound up

459
00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:14,680
happening is Sylvania as CEO gets a call

460
00:18:19,050 --> 00:18:17,770
from Bobby Kennedy you know the the at

461
00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:19,060
the time I think he was like a senator

462
00:18:24,630 --> 00:18:21,250
or something and you know this is the

463
00:18:28,229 --> 00:18:24,640
Bobby Kennedy and and calling on behalf

464
00:18:31,009 --> 00:18:28,239
of his constituents who had lobbied him

465
00:18:34,049 --> 00:18:31,019
to end this this incredibly

466
00:18:35,729 --> 00:18:34,059
anti-religious work studying psychic

467
00:18:37,649 --> 00:18:35,739
abilities at Sylvania or the government

468
00:18:40,259 --> 00:18:37,659
was going to pull all their funding so

469
00:18:43,109 --> 00:18:40,269
there when trestles experiment there but

470
00:18:46,229 --> 00:18:43,119
meanwhile help put off who Russell had

471
00:18:48,330 --> 00:18:46,239
not yet met yet at that point was doing

472
00:18:50,700 --> 00:18:48,340
these experiments with plant

473
00:18:52,889 --> 00:18:50,710
communication of all things he was

474
00:18:55,099 --> 00:18:52,899
actually studying whether or not you

475
00:18:57,479 --> 00:18:55,109
could hook a plant up to electrodes and

476
00:19:00,180 --> 00:18:57,489
you know and then basically threaten the

477
00:19:02,310 --> 00:19:00,190
plant with fire or other things or say

478
00:19:04,409 --> 00:19:02,320
loving things to the plant and and then

479
00:19:05,700 --> 00:19:04,419
you know you would get a physiological

480
00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:05,710
reaction and this was stuff that that

481
00:19:09,089 --> 00:19:07,690
Clive Baxter had done he was kind of

482
00:19:13,259 --> 00:19:09,099
working with clive and they're repeating

483
00:19:15,779 --> 00:19:13,269
these experiments at sr i and and this

484
00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:15,789
just a report about this just happened

485
00:19:22,019 --> 00:19:19,330
to be on the desk of another physicist

486
00:19:23,249 --> 00:19:22,029
that was working with Ingo Swann you

487
00:19:26,549 --> 00:19:23,259
know who was a well-known psychic in the

488
00:19:28,379 --> 00:19:26,559
New York City area and and he happened

489
00:19:30,930 --> 00:19:28,389
to be at a cocktail party and he sees

490
00:19:33,450 --> 00:19:30,940
this document about this research on

491
00:19:35,849 --> 00:19:33,460
this prisons desk and and he kind of

492
00:19:38,399 --> 00:19:35,859
laughs and then he and then he sends Hal

493
00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:38,409
in California this letter saying you

494
00:19:41,519 --> 00:19:40,330
know why are you studying plants if you

495
00:19:43,349 --> 00:19:41,529
really want to know about intuitive

496
00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:43,359
ability study me you know I'm psychic

497
00:19:48,180 --> 00:19:46,570
and and Hal basically just kind of goes

498
00:19:50,579 --> 00:19:48,190
you know like well you know this is kind

499
00:19:52,049 --> 00:19:50,589
of nutty but I'll give it a shot and the

500
00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:52,059
reason he gave a shot was because he had

501
00:19:57,599 --> 00:19:55,210
read a book called psychic discoveries

502
00:19:59,509 --> 00:19:57,609
behind the iron curtain which was a big

503
00:20:02,820 --> 00:19:59,519
book back at the time in the 60s

504
00:20:05,609 --> 00:20:02,830
reporting that many many laboratories

505
00:20:08,519 --> 00:20:05,619
around the Soviet Union were actively

506
00:20:11,339 --> 00:20:08,529
not just studying psychic abilities but

507
00:20:13,529 --> 00:20:11,349
using them and more specifically using

508
00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:13,539
outbound abilities like trying to do

509
00:20:18,180 --> 00:20:16,330
remote influence and piqué and you know

510
00:20:21,869 --> 00:20:18,190
messing up electronics with the psychic

511
00:20:23,249 --> 00:20:21,879
abilities that kind of stuff and so they

512
00:20:26,639 --> 00:20:23,259
were both you know kind of like

513
00:20:29,329 --> 00:20:26,649
interested in this separately and Howell

514
00:20:32,519 --> 00:20:29,339
wound up going to a talk at Stanford

515
00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:32,529
University where Howe was working at

516
00:20:35,879 --> 00:20:34,450
Stanford Research Institute its

517
00:20:38,039 --> 00:20:35,889
affiliated with the college but it was

518
00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:38,049
also one of the most prestigious you

519
00:20:41,370 --> 00:20:40,690
know um scientific establishments in the

520
00:20:44,250 --> 00:20:41,380
world

521
00:20:45,659 --> 00:20:44,260
and inhale gave a talk on psychic

522
00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:45,669
discoveries behind the Iron Curtain and

523
00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:49,690
and Russell basically you know runs and

524
00:20:53,820 --> 00:20:52,090
gets his ESP game out of the car and and

525
00:20:55,529 --> 00:20:53,830
then tracks Howell down backstage to

526
00:20:56,940 --> 00:20:55,539
show him this ESP machine because he's

527
00:20:59,010 --> 00:20:56,950
like oh my god I found another kindred

528
00:21:02,220 --> 00:20:59,020
spirit this guy's a laser physicist and

529
00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:02,230
he's into ESP too so health said you

530
00:21:04,860 --> 00:21:03,490
know what's really interesting you know

531
00:21:06,210 --> 00:21:04,870
I like this and you know maybe if we

532
00:21:09,690 --> 00:21:06,220
could get some funding together we could

533
00:21:12,270 --> 00:21:09,700
do something so meanwhile Russell hears

534
00:21:14,700 --> 00:21:12,280
about a know he actually he gets invited

535
00:21:16,500 --> 00:21:14,710
to a NASA conference because he was

536
00:21:18,149 --> 00:21:16,510
doing lasers for NASA it was on

537
00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:18,159
speculative technologies like new

538
00:21:23,340 --> 00:21:20,770
technologies and so he decides they'll

539
00:21:26,940 --> 00:21:23,350
show up with his ESP game and and he

540
00:21:29,190 --> 00:21:26,950
gets of all people Wernher von Braun to

541
00:21:30,360 --> 00:21:29,200
try his ESP game you know I don't know

542
00:21:33,539 --> 00:21:30,370
if you know who wondered von Braun it

543
00:21:37,409 --> 00:21:33,549
yeah Wernher von Braun was the X Nazi

544
00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:37,419
who who then became head of NASA NASA's

545
00:21:41,580 --> 00:21:39,730
rocket program and was really you know

546
00:21:44,490 --> 00:21:41,590
very much responsible for the Apollo

547
00:21:47,669 --> 00:21:44,500
moon program and and Wernher von Braun

548
00:21:49,890 --> 00:21:47,679
aces this game like out of 25 you know

549
00:21:50,850 --> 00:21:49,900
attempts he gets like all 25 right or

550
00:21:52,620 --> 00:21:50,860
something like that which is like

551
00:21:56,909 --> 00:21:52,630
statistically you know not even possible

552
00:21:58,409 --> 00:21:56,919
and and so one Braun goes the head

553
00:21:59,940 --> 00:21:58,419
administrator at NASA and he goes this

554
00:22:01,950 --> 00:21:59,950
is incredible you got to see this and

555
00:22:03,450 --> 00:22:01,960
and and and they wind up basically

556
00:22:07,140 --> 00:22:03,460
making a deal right there at this

557
00:22:09,930 --> 00:22:07,150
conference for NASA to provide $50,000

558
00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:09,940
in seed money to create a program for

559
00:22:15,299 --> 00:22:13,690
NASA to look at the ESP ability of their

560
00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:15,309
astronauts and see if there's ways that

561
00:22:18,810 --> 00:22:16,690
they can increase their intuitive

562
00:22:21,060 --> 00:22:18,820
ability so that if something happens in

563
00:22:22,919 --> 00:22:21,070
space and there's no other communication

564
00:22:24,659 --> 00:22:22,929
and nobody knows what's going on they

565
00:22:26,700 --> 00:22:24,669
can still use their intuition you know

566
00:22:28,770 --> 00:22:26,710
to try and figure out the problem that

567
00:22:31,529 --> 00:22:28,780
was their rationale at the time and and

568
00:22:33,090 --> 00:22:31,539
so Russell goes back to house SR ayat he

569
00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:33,100
says hey I think I've got some funding

570
00:22:38,279 --> 00:22:35,610
let's do a program and that started the

571
00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:38,289
the first ESP research program at

572
00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:40,090
Stanford Research Institute this was

573
00:22:46,289 --> 00:22:43,090
probably circa in 1973 or you know -

574
00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:46,299
something like that and and shortly

575
00:22:52,230 --> 00:22:50,530
after that Ingo this psychic that that

576
00:22:54,510 --> 00:22:52,240
has claimed to be the best psychic in

577
00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:54,520
the world and how has now brought out to

578
00:22:58,080 --> 00:22:54,970
us our

579
00:23:00,000 --> 00:22:58,090
to run some tests on he winds up

580
00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:00,010
perturbing this like really really

581
00:23:04,649 --> 00:23:02,890
top-secret magnetometer that's buried

582
00:23:06,659 --> 00:23:04,659
you know far belize and beneath the

583
00:23:08,490 --> 00:23:06,669
ground and concrete to study like you

584
00:23:10,950 --> 00:23:08,500
know these tiny little fluctuations in

585
00:23:12,810 --> 00:23:10,960
magnetic fields and measure atomic

586
00:23:15,149 --> 00:23:12,820
energy and stuff like that that's far

587
00:23:17,850 --> 00:23:15,159
far distant and and he actually breaks

588
00:23:19,799 --> 00:23:17,860
this experiment by actually getting it

589
00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:19,809
getting the needle to move and and not

590
00:23:23,970 --> 00:23:21,250
only does he get the needle to move but

591
00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:23,980
he describes what the magnetometer looks

592
00:23:31,610 --> 00:23:27,690
like and here i sit down and and somehow

593
00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:31,620
somebody in CIA hears about this and and

594
00:23:37,500 --> 00:23:34,450
so the next thing you know they're the

595
00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:37,510
knock on house office door and sr i hi

596
00:23:41,430 --> 00:23:39,730
we've been looking for you he says what

597
00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:41,440
do you mean he says we've been looking

598
00:23:46,770 --> 00:23:43,090
for someone credible that we can trust

599
00:23:49,039 --> 00:23:46,780
to basically either prove or disprove

600
00:23:51,120 --> 00:23:49,049
the reality of extraterrestrial

601
00:23:52,950 --> 00:23:51,130
reception and psychic abilities because

602
00:23:54,330 --> 00:23:52,960
we're really worried about like what the

603
00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:54,340
soviets are doing you know they're doing

604
00:23:59,070 --> 00:23:56,650
a ton of work on this or spending many

605
00:24:03,330 --> 00:23:59,080
millions of dollars you know every draft

606
00:24:06,510 --> 00:24:03,340
age you know drafty into the soviet army

607
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:06,520
is is given a little test to see if they

608
00:24:11,340 --> 00:24:09,970
they are maybe you know sensitive to

609
00:24:13,289 --> 00:24:11,350
extrasensory perception and then they're

610
00:24:14,580 --> 00:24:13,299
pulled into these other programs and you

611
00:24:16,260 --> 00:24:14,590
know he says this is like a big deal in

612
00:24:18,330 --> 00:24:16,270
the soviet union and we're and we think

613
00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:18,340
that there's absolutely nothing to this

614
00:24:24,630 --> 00:24:20,770
we think it's either propaganda or we

615
00:24:27,450 --> 00:24:24,640
think that it's you know just bogus to

616
00:24:31,770 --> 00:24:27,460
try to like scare us and and we want you

617
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:31,780
to prove that it doesn't work and they

618
00:24:36,930 --> 00:24:33,850
weren't really able to do that which

619
00:24:39,870 --> 00:24:36,940
we'll get to so um okay so now we have

620
00:24:42,659 --> 00:24:39,880
the CIA's kind of overseeing the work

621
00:24:47,370 --> 00:24:42,669
being done at SSRI and they actually

622
00:24:49,529 --> 00:24:47,380
bring put off and Russell Targ in with a

623
00:24:52,140 --> 00:24:49,539
gentleman named Pat price who becomes

624
00:24:53,610 --> 00:24:52,150
kind of a really big part of your film

625
00:24:55,409 --> 00:24:53,620
and one of the first things that they

626
00:24:58,950 --> 00:24:55,419
they sort of worked on was the Patty

627
00:25:01,289 --> 00:24:58,960
Hearst kidnapping this was I mean I kind

628
00:25:04,289 --> 00:25:01,299
a faintly remember this whole thing but

629
00:25:06,299 --> 00:25:04,299
I had no idea that this involved remote

630
00:25:07,620 --> 00:25:06,309
viewing so could you maybe run us

631
00:25:08,700 --> 00:25:07,630
through a little bit of that Lance

632
00:25:10,860 --> 00:25:08,710
before we get to

633
00:25:13,650 --> 00:25:10,870
the next big dramatic thing that Pat

634
00:25:16,350 --> 00:25:13,660
price uh remove all need you know the

635
00:25:19,470 --> 00:25:16,360
the the thing is about Pat price I mean

636
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:19,480
you know SR I had a few different you

637
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:20,410
know people that they had worked with

638
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:24,730
and and angle was one in Pat price was

639
00:25:29,340 --> 00:25:26,250
the other they were two of the original

640
00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:29,350
subjects in the program and kit Green

641
00:25:36,360 --> 00:25:32,730
who was their sort of contract monitor

642
00:25:38,490 --> 00:25:36,370
you know was they had done a series of

643
00:25:41,220 --> 00:25:38,500
early experiments with Pat price where

644
00:25:42,900 --> 00:25:41,230
Kate green would go out and and hide and

645
00:25:45,170 --> 00:25:42,910
this was after I think the bigger one

646
00:25:48,630 --> 00:25:45,180
that you're talking about but but anyway

647
00:25:51,090 --> 00:25:48,640
Pat price was a former police

648
00:25:53,970 --> 00:25:51,100
commissioner in Burbank California you

649
00:25:56,550 --> 00:25:53,980
know he was the type of a guy who

650
00:25:58,560 --> 00:25:56,560
basically if a detective had a rough

651
00:26:00,840 --> 00:25:58,570
case they'd go in and they'd see Pat and

652
00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:00,850
and they talked to Pat about it and Pat

653
00:26:05,910 --> 00:26:04,090
just had an intuitive knowing about sort

654
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:05,920
of like what rocks to look under in

655
00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:07,570
order to get this case going and

656
00:26:11,250 --> 00:26:09,850
sometimes they said he would go in and

657
00:26:13,860 --> 00:26:11,260
he would take a map of the city of

658
00:26:15,120 --> 00:26:13,870
Burbank and and the detective would say

659
00:26:16,260 --> 00:26:15,130
you know this car has been stolen you

660
00:26:17,820 --> 00:26:16,270
know we don't know where this car thief

661
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:17,830
is he keeps stealing cars do you have

662
00:26:22,050 --> 00:26:19,810
any idea and he'd say yeah I see a guy

663
00:26:23,460 --> 00:26:22,060
you know his his heart's palpitating you

664
00:26:25,770 --> 00:26:23,470
know he's scared looks like he's kind of

665
00:26:27,270 --> 00:26:25,780
like worried about the police and you

666
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:27,280
know that this is this is I think where

667
00:26:29,610 --> 00:26:28,330
you want to look and he'd point to a

668
00:26:31,500 --> 00:26:29,620
location and that he'd go there and

669
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:31,510
they'd probably find the guy you know so

670
00:26:36,750 --> 00:26:34,090
you know he was a very well-known for

671
00:26:39,930 --> 00:26:36,760
that kind of a thing but by that point

672
00:26:41,370 --> 00:26:39,940
of the Patty Hearst kidnapping and

673
00:26:42,780 --> 00:26:41,380
actually even before that you know the

674
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:42,790
NSA break-in which was the first thing

675
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:44,650
that they really did yeah yeah you know

676
00:26:49,530 --> 00:26:47,890
Pat you know just heard about this

677
00:26:51,120 --> 00:26:49,540
through some of the public things that

678
00:26:53,250 --> 00:26:51,130
SR I had done because they had published

679
00:26:55,110 --> 00:26:53,260
and some stuff and they got that made it

680
00:26:57,810 --> 00:26:55,120
into the papers and things like that so

681
00:26:59,670 --> 00:26:57,820
he just asked to be a subject and in one

682
00:27:00,930 --> 00:26:59,680
of the really big things that they

683
00:27:03,120 --> 00:27:00,940
brought in and on once they had done

684
00:27:06,060 --> 00:27:03,130
some sort of classified work for the

685
00:27:07,650 --> 00:27:06,070
government that did well you know by now

686
00:27:10,620 --> 00:27:07,660
they had kind of a reputation to be able

687
00:27:12,540 --> 00:27:10,630
to find things and so the Berkeley

688
00:27:15,900 --> 00:27:12,550
police you know called him and said

689
00:27:18,210 --> 00:27:15,910
called Hal put off actually at SR I and

690
00:27:19,530 --> 00:27:18,220
said you know we got this kidnapping you

691
00:27:22,050 --> 00:27:19,540
know the daughter of an heiress you know

692
00:27:22,620 --> 00:27:22,060
Patty Hearst is missing and you know can

693
00:27:25,860 --> 00:27:22,630
you help us

694
00:27:28,230 --> 00:27:25,870
and Pat says I mean so Russell I mean

695
00:27:30,659 --> 00:27:28,240
Hal says you know I think you know Pat

696
00:27:33,690 --> 00:27:30,669
prizes available he can do that so so

697
00:27:36,150 --> 00:27:33,700
Pat and Russell you know actually go out

698
00:27:37,590 --> 00:27:36,160
to the Berkeley police station and and

699
00:27:40,020 --> 00:27:37,600
you know what Russell's role in all of

700
00:27:42,270 --> 00:27:40,030
this was was as what's called a monitor

701
00:27:43,799 --> 00:27:42,280
or an interviewer and if you ever played

702
00:27:46,289 --> 00:27:43,809
Dungeons & Dragons as a kid did you ever

703
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:46,299
play that a little bit yeah yeah so so

704
00:27:49,380 --> 00:27:47,410
there's always like the dungeon master

705
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:49,390
yeah you know and use the guy that knows

706
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:51,010
where everything is and the players

707
00:27:54,510 --> 00:27:52,450
don't know anything and so there's this

708
00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:54,520
dungeon master kind of guiding you

709
00:27:58,080 --> 00:27:56,530
through all of the imaginary things that

710
00:28:00,029 --> 00:27:58,090
you're seeing and describing them for

711
00:28:01,830 --> 00:28:00,039
you and kind of pointing you you know

712
00:28:03,149 --> 00:28:01,840
through this you know that's the role of

713
00:28:04,529 --> 00:28:03,159
a monitor when it comes to remote

714
00:28:06,330 --> 00:28:04,539
viewing it's usually a two-person

715
00:28:09,120 --> 00:28:06,340
process and that's that's Russell

716
00:28:10,950 --> 00:28:09,130
so Russell and he'll show up at at the

717
00:28:13,409 --> 00:28:10,960
police station with Russell being the

718
00:28:17,130 --> 00:28:13,419
monitor Pat price being the psychic

719
00:28:18,539 --> 00:28:17,140
subject and and the police are like boy

720
00:28:20,159 --> 00:28:18,549
are we happy to see you you know like

721
00:28:22,470 --> 00:28:20,169
yeah we've heard about you we'd love to

722
00:28:24,029 --> 00:28:22,480
see what you do and and Pat price says

723
00:28:26,250 --> 00:28:24,039
just you know let me look at a mug book

724
00:28:29,220 --> 00:28:26,260
you know that's how I usually start so

725
00:28:31,409 --> 00:28:29,230
he opens up a mug book and kind of flips

726
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:31,419
through it and he says Jesus just you

727
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:32,650
know let me look at you usable usual

728
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:33,850
suspects who do you think could have

729
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:36,010
been this person and and after flipping

730
00:28:40,140 --> 00:28:37,210
through it for a while he stops and he

731
00:28:43,220 --> 00:28:40,150
points to one particular picture of a

732
00:28:47,100 --> 00:28:43,230
guy by the name of Donald of fries and

733
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:47,110
he says this is the guy you know and and

734
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:49,450
that was the guy he was the ringleader

735
00:28:54,299 --> 00:28:52,210
of the crew you know and he also pointed

736
00:28:55,770 --> 00:28:54,309
to a couple of others and he didn't he

737
00:28:58,049 --> 00:28:55,780
said no you didn't point to this one but

738
00:28:59,850 --> 00:28:58,059
he said I also hear the name Lobo

739
00:29:02,490 --> 00:28:59,860
there's a guy involved his name is Lobo

740
00:29:04,470 --> 00:29:02,500
and one of the breezes henchmen was

741
00:29:06,060 --> 00:29:04,480
named lo it was named wolf that was his

742
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:06,070
name they called him the wolf you know

743
00:29:12,870 --> 00:29:09,490
and and and he says you know I'm seeing

744
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:12,880
an impression of these jarred lion giant

745
00:29:17,159 --> 00:29:15,730
water towers and in a freeway and he

746
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:17,169
kind of describes this area and one of

747
00:29:20,789 --> 00:29:18,850
the police and officers in the room says

748
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:20,799
you know I kind of sounds familiar to me

749
00:29:24,390 --> 00:29:22,330
I think I know where it is and and so

750
00:29:26,850 --> 00:29:24,400
they sent somebody out to check and they

751
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:26,860
found the kidnapped car right where he

752
00:29:32,310 --> 00:29:29,650
said oh my god you know and I actually I

753
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:32,320
actually spoke with one of the police

754
00:29:35,690 --> 00:29:34,450
officers who was involved with that and

755
00:29:37,730 --> 00:29:35,700
to this day he can

756
00:29:38,870 --> 00:29:37,740
understand it you know he can understand

757
00:29:40,399 --> 00:29:38,880
it and it didn't make the film because

758
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:40,409
by then I was already kind of done

759
00:29:44,299 --> 00:29:42,330
filming when we tracked him down and and

760
00:29:46,159 --> 00:29:44,309
I had so much other material but you

761
00:29:47,690 --> 00:29:46,169
know yeah they they actually got a

762
00:29:49,820 --> 00:29:47,700
commendation from the Berkeley Police

763
00:29:51,470 --> 00:29:49,830
Department because many of the details

764
00:29:53,810 --> 00:29:51,480
you know they said it was a political

765
00:29:57,680 --> 00:29:53,820
kidnapping you know not for money you

766
00:29:59,269 --> 00:29:57,690
know they said it was a you know several

767
00:30:01,580 --> 00:29:59,279
details they got like kind of the layout

768
00:30:03,110 --> 00:30:01,590
of the apartment correctly but the

769
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:03,120
problem was that the Berkeley police did

770
00:30:07,850 --> 00:30:06,450
not communicate that well to the FBI you

771
00:30:10,370 --> 00:30:07,860
know there was like sort of this

772
00:30:11,870 --> 00:30:10,380
interagency rivalry going on and so they

773
00:30:13,879 --> 00:30:11,880
didn't listen to the Berkeley police and

774
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:13,889
of course the kidnappers got away and we

775
00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:15,330
all know sort of how the story went

776
00:30:20,509 --> 00:30:17,330
after that yeah it's it's a fascinating

777
00:30:23,299 --> 00:30:20,519
part of the that case that none of us

778
00:30:25,009 --> 00:30:23,309
knew about again like using a remote

779
00:30:26,870 --> 00:30:25,019
viewer and having the actual police say

780
00:30:28,759 --> 00:30:26,880
yeah we still don't know how they did it

781
00:30:31,220 --> 00:30:28,769
but they did it that's amazing

782
00:30:33,889 --> 00:30:31,230
but I mean that one that one I could

783
00:30:36,019 --> 00:30:33,899
sort of you know I think people the

784
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:36,029
skeptics let's say or debunkers could

785
00:30:40,700 --> 00:30:38,130
poke holes through but this next one

786
00:30:42,710 --> 00:30:40,710
Lance this is where I was really like

787
00:30:46,269 --> 00:30:42,720
okay like there's definitely something

788
00:30:48,529 --> 00:30:46,279
to this this was in 1973 the Sugar Grove

789
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:48,539
incident could you maybe I know this is

790
00:30:53,299 --> 00:30:51,210
a long one very convoluted but maybe

791
00:30:55,519 --> 00:30:53,309
sort of run us through this and what

792
00:30:58,720 --> 00:30:55,529
Helen Russell took away from this entire

793
00:31:03,529 --> 00:31:01,490
do you enjoy true stories of the

794
00:31:06,169 --> 00:31:03,539
supernatural from the people who

795
00:31:09,350 --> 00:31:06,179
experienced it well then you might like

796
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:09,360
my show Jim Harold's campfire hi I'm Jim

797
00:31:15,019 --> 00:31:12,330
and we've been doing the show since 2009

798
00:31:17,990 --> 00:31:15,029
and we talked about ghosts cryptic

799
00:31:19,909 --> 00:31:18,000
creatures UFOs head scratchers you name

800
00:31:22,250 --> 00:31:19,919
it and you tune in you might hear a

801
00:31:25,580 --> 00:31:22,260
story like this one and as he was

802
00:31:29,060 --> 00:31:25,590
driving home he encountered a shadow

803
00:31:32,389 --> 00:31:29,070
person who seemed to be dressed like a

804
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:32,399
monk I know that sounds very strange but

805
00:31:38,210 --> 00:31:35,370
it was a solid black form and it was

806
00:31:43,129 --> 00:31:38,220
wearing a hooded cloak tied at the waist

807
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:43,139
with the cloak up and it had glowing red

808
00:31:48,910 --> 00:31:47,010
eyes he sees this thing coming out of a

809
00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:48,920
really teeny

810
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:51,770
Bandon cemetery if you haven't tuned in

811
00:31:56,350 --> 00:31:53,690
I hope you'll check us out you can find

812
00:31:59,140 --> 00:31:56,360
us on Apple podcasts Spotify and

813
00:32:01,420 --> 00:31:59,150
wherever podcasts are heard it's Jim

814
00:32:02,830 --> 00:32:01,430
Harold's campfire and you can find it at

815
00:32:09,070 --> 00:32:02,840
Jim Harold calm

816
00:32:11,500 --> 00:32:09,080
thanks so much and stay spooky this was

817
00:32:14,380 --> 00:32:11,510
this was sort of one of the really key

818
00:32:16,660 --> 00:32:14,390
things that that my mind lit up on when

819
00:32:18,490 --> 00:32:16,670
when I first heard this as this is this

820
00:32:20,890 --> 00:32:18,500
is so cinematic it's just such a great

821
00:32:22,330 --> 00:32:20,900
yeah story I mean it's gonna make a

822
00:32:23,620 --> 00:32:22,340
great narrative film I mean I want to

823
00:32:25,990 --> 00:32:23,630
turn this whole thing into a you know

824
00:32:27,370 --> 00:32:26,000
bigger feature but but it's like you

825
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:27,380
know it's like the Dirty Dozen with

826
00:32:29,980 --> 00:32:28,010
psychics

827
00:32:32,290 --> 00:32:29,990
you know sneaking into a secret NSA

828
00:32:35,410 --> 00:32:32,300
facility you know I mean it's like it

829
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:35,420
really is it's it's you know this was

830
00:32:41,170 --> 00:32:38,450
the defining thing that really shook the

831
00:32:44,950 --> 00:32:41,180
entire US intelligence community now

832
00:32:47,380 --> 00:32:44,960
sugar grove to give this some context is

833
00:32:50,050 --> 00:32:47,390
surrounded is sugar grove Virginia and

834
00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:50,060
and I think it's retired now as a

835
00:32:55,570 --> 00:32:52,970
facility but back in the day there was a

836
00:32:58,630 --> 00:32:55,580
hundred mile radius around it where it

837
00:33:00,760 --> 00:32:58,640
was a no radio zone like you couldn't

838
00:33:03,610 --> 00:33:00,770
even go in there with a CB or walkie

839
00:33:07,390 --> 00:33:03,620
talkie or anything it was so classified

840
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:07,400
and it was so sensitive that it was

841
00:33:12,010 --> 00:33:10,610
highly protected but within that area

842
00:33:13,510 --> 00:33:12,020
there was a lot there's still homes and

843
00:33:14,980 --> 00:33:13,520
there's people that live there and you

844
00:33:18,670 --> 00:33:14,990
know there's there's lots of other

845
00:33:22,330 --> 00:33:18,680
things going on and as I said before the

846
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:22,340
CIA was very skeptical of the claims of

847
00:33:25,690 --> 00:33:24,410
what the Russians were sort of chatting

848
00:33:27,460 --> 00:33:25,700
about in their own intelligence

849
00:33:30,460 --> 00:33:27,470
communities what about what they were

850
00:33:33,100 --> 00:33:30,470
accomplishing using psychic ability so

851
00:33:34,510 --> 00:33:33,110
kit Green who was there there first sort

852
00:33:36,250 --> 00:33:34,520
of contract monitor and somebody who was

853
00:33:38,980 --> 00:33:36,260
just really interested in this sort of

854
00:33:40,930 --> 00:33:38,990
subject matter and by the way now who

855
00:33:42,820 --> 00:33:40,940
was I think involved with to the Stars

856
00:33:45,790 --> 00:33:42,830
Academy and sort of the UFO subject now

857
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:45,800
these days with how Hal credits kit for

858
00:33:51,670 --> 00:33:48,770
getting him into to the Stars Academy

859
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:51,680
and bringing him on board that but but

860
00:33:55,990 --> 00:33:52,850
back in this day they were just young

861
00:33:57,820 --> 00:33:56,000
guys and KITT was somebody who was

862
00:33:59,110 --> 00:33:57,830
curious about this kind of stuff but he

863
00:34:02,110 --> 00:33:59,120
thought there really wasn't anything to

864
00:34:04,870 --> 00:34:02,120
it and he goes to Russ

865
00:34:07,330 --> 00:34:04,880
and and he says okay well if you guys

866
00:34:09,099 --> 00:34:07,340
think there's something to this

867
00:34:10,570 --> 00:34:09,109
why don't you let's let's try something

868
00:34:12,359 --> 00:34:10,580
and he had heard that they were now

869
00:34:15,220 --> 00:34:12,369
doing by this point at us our i

870
00:34:16,839 --> 00:34:15,230
coordinate remote viewing and and

871
00:34:18,399 --> 00:34:16,849
coordinate remote viewing is where you

872
00:34:21,369 --> 00:34:18,409
basically just take a lot a latitude and

873
00:34:23,609 --> 00:34:21,379
a longitude and you provide those

874
00:34:26,349 --> 00:34:23,619
coordinates to the remote viewer and

875
00:34:28,180 --> 00:34:26,359
they tell you what's there so he gives

876
00:34:29,669 --> 00:34:28,190
so he basically goes to one of his

877
00:34:33,399 --> 00:34:29,679
colleagues at CIA than he knows a

878
00:34:36,669 --> 00:34:33,409
satellite analyst actually and and he

879
00:34:38,770 --> 00:34:36,679
says give me something that you know

880
00:34:39,159 --> 00:34:38,780
really well a location somewhere on the

881
00:34:40,899 --> 00:34:39,169
earth

882
00:34:43,180 --> 00:34:40,909
I don't care where it is just something

883
00:34:44,530 --> 00:34:43,190
that you know well and and don't tell me

884
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:44,540
what it is just just give me the

885
00:34:48,790 --> 00:34:47,210
coordinates and I'll pass them on so the

886
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:48,800
guy goes and comes back he goes here I'm

887
00:34:51,730 --> 00:34:49,970
gonna give you this and they're never

888
00:34:52,180 --> 00:34:51,740
gonna guess this because nobody knows

889
00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:52,190
what this is

890
00:34:58,359 --> 00:34:55,970
okay so kit gives those coordinates to s

891
00:35:00,849 --> 00:34:58,369
RI s RI independently gives those

892
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:00,859
coordinates to Pat price and Ingo Swann

893
00:35:06,490 --> 00:35:01,970
and keep in mind they're not working

894
00:35:07,810 --> 00:35:06,500
together and and they both go off you

895
00:35:09,849 --> 00:35:07,820
know on Pat gives his sort of

896
00:35:11,530 --> 00:35:09,859
description over the phone and then

897
00:35:14,230 --> 00:35:11,540
emails in some drawings that he did you

898
00:35:16,720 --> 00:35:14,240
know Ingo does is in like a Faraday cage

899
00:35:19,150 --> 00:35:16,730
that s RI and you know in very

900
00:35:20,859 --> 00:35:19,160
controlled conditions and Pat price by

901
00:35:22,810 --> 00:35:20,869
this point was basically just there on a

902
00:35:24,910 --> 00:35:22,820
lark you know he was somebody this isn't

903
00:35:26,079 --> 00:35:24,920
when he very first had called s RI and

904
00:35:28,060 --> 00:35:26,089
kind of said you know hey I'd love to be

905
00:35:29,380 --> 00:35:28,070
a subject and and he'll didn't know what

906
00:35:32,620 --> 00:35:29,390
these coordinates were or anything he

907
00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:32,630
was just giving them to Pat sort of just

908
00:35:35,470 --> 00:35:34,490
to see if Pat could do anything you know

909
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:35,480
he didn't know it was gonna come of it

910
00:35:42,250 --> 00:35:38,330
and it was actually the very first thing

911
00:35:45,180 --> 00:35:42,260
he did and they get back these like very

912
00:35:47,530 --> 00:35:45,190
detailed reports from both of them about

913
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:47,540
you know very military looking

914
00:35:54,099 --> 00:35:50,210
installations missile silos and flag

915
00:35:55,990 --> 00:35:54,109
poles and you know um accordion doors

916
00:35:57,940 --> 00:35:56,000
like you know like with big jeeps and

917
00:36:02,349 --> 00:35:57,950
stuff you know they rolled in and out

918
00:36:03,940 --> 00:36:02,359
and even like the names of like like

919
00:36:05,829 --> 00:36:03,950
just various names of different things

920
00:36:07,329 --> 00:36:05,839
and you know it's and it's weird the way

921
00:36:09,820 --> 00:36:07,339
they do it it's like they start like

922
00:36:11,410 --> 00:36:09,830
high up and and it's almost like Google

923
00:36:13,359 --> 00:36:11,420
Earth like in their imagination because

924
00:36:15,310 --> 00:36:13,369
the first descriptions that come in are

925
00:36:15,850 --> 00:36:15,320
like okay I'm five thousand feet over a

926
00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:15,860
target

927
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:18,530
I'm looking at forest land now I'm going

928
00:36:22,570 --> 00:36:20,810
in I see rose I see a town off to the

929
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:22,580
left you know and then I'm going in

930
00:36:25,810 --> 00:36:24,290
further and now I'm starting to see what

931
00:36:27,700 --> 00:36:25,820
looks like some sort of a military

932
00:36:29,830 --> 00:36:27,710
installation because I see military

933
00:36:31,450 --> 00:36:29,840
vehicles you know now I'm actually going

934
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:31,460
underground and I'm seeing you know

935
00:36:35,950 --> 00:36:33,770
filing cabinets now I'm sticking my head

936
00:36:37,990 --> 00:36:35,960
inside a filing cabinet and I'm getting

937
00:36:40,030 --> 00:36:38,000
the names of documents and I'm writing

938
00:36:41,290 --> 00:36:40,040
those down so that's what Pat priced it

939
00:36:44,770 --> 00:36:41,300
and it's pretty much what Diego did but

940
00:36:46,060 --> 00:36:44,780
not quite as specifically and so they

941
00:36:47,260 --> 00:36:46,070
get this back and they go well that's

942
00:36:49,030 --> 00:36:47,270
interesting we don't know if it's real

943
00:36:51,790 --> 00:36:49,040
or not we just put it in envelopes send

944
00:36:53,410 --> 00:36:51,800
it back to CIA you know open

945
00:36:56,830 --> 00:36:53,420
communication through you know snail

946
00:36:58,930 --> 00:36:56,840
mail and KITT Green gets this back in

947
00:37:02,890 --> 00:36:58,940
his office in Virginia he opens it up

948
00:37:04,180 --> 00:37:02,900
and literally it's like okay this is not

949
00:37:06,580 --> 00:37:04,190
what I expected I mean this is like

950
00:37:07,870 --> 00:37:06,590
incredibly detailed reporting on some

951
00:37:09,910 --> 00:37:07,880
stuff that I have no idea if it's there

952
00:37:12,670 --> 00:37:09,920
so he goes back to his analyst friend

953
00:37:15,850 --> 00:37:12,680
and says here you go and the analyst

954
00:37:17,500 --> 00:37:15,860
friend says well they got it wrong

955
00:37:19,450 --> 00:37:17,510
because I just gave you the coordinates

956
00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:19,460
to you know my log cabin out in the

957
00:37:22,330 --> 00:37:19,970
woods

958
00:37:25,930 --> 00:37:22,340
there's nothing anything like this there

959
00:37:28,180 --> 00:37:25,940
and and when when but KITT was really

960
00:37:30,790 --> 00:37:28,190
plagued by the fact that both of them

961
00:37:32,290 --> 00:37:30,800
had gotten very similar results you know

962
00:37:33,340 --> 00:37:32,300
so if they weren't communicating and

963
00:37:33,730 --> 00:37:33,350
they got somewhere results what does

964
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:33,740
that mean

965
00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:36,410
and so on a lark he goes on a family

966
00:37:40,240 --> 00:37:38,210
trip up to you know nearby where he

967
00:37:42,580 --> 00:37:40,250
lurked works in CIA headquarters is this

968
00:37:44,530 --> 00:37:42,590
you know I'm sugar of area so he drives

969
00:37:46,750 --> 00:37:44,540
out that way and he's gonna go to his

970
00:37:48,730 --> 00:37:46,760
friends cabin and as he's driving there

971
00:37:50,770 --> 00:37:48,740
you know he nearby he looks out and

972
00:37:53,590 --> 00:37:50,780
there's this giant radar dish and he's

973
00:37:55,420 --> 00:37:53,600
like gee what's that and so he does a

974
00:37:58,720 --> 00:37:55,430
little investigating he finds out it's

975
00:38:00,070 --> 00:37:58,730
an NSA listening post you know he

976
00:38:01,180 --> 00:38:00,080
wouldn't even talk about this he wasn't

977
00:38:03,820 --> 00:38:01,190
even sure if he could talk about this

978
00:38:06,310 --> 00:38:03,830
but I'd know what it was it was a CIA

979
00:38:08,070 --> 00:38:06,320
listening post to spy on Soviet

980
00:38:10,330 --> 00:38:08,080
satellites and try to pick up signals

981
00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:10,340
then and and figure out what their

982
00:38:15,490 --> 00:38:13,610
communications were so it was a highly

983
00:38:17,170 --> 00:38:15,500
highly classified site I mean this is

984
00:38:21,250 --> 00:38:17,180
like the most top-secret site that the

985
00:38:23,170 --> 00:38:21,260
NSA had highly guarded and but he sends

986
00:38:26,050 --> 00:38:23,180
this off to the owners of the site and

987
00:38:28,020 --> 00:38:26,060
and he and then the next you know week

988
00:38:31,090 --> 00:38:28,030
later or something

989
00:38:33,370 --> 00:38:31,100
NSA shows up at his office FBI shows up

990
00:38:33,970 --> 00:38:33,380
at his office his bosses at CIA show up

991
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:33,980
his office

992
00:38:40,090 --> 00:38:36,890
what are you doing sending psychics to

993
00:38:42,910 --> 00:38:40,100
spy on the NSA you know hit because

994
00:38:44,890 --> 00:38:42,920
because they got it really right you

995
00:38:46,660 --> 00:38:44,900
know like they really nailed a lot of

996
00:38:48,850 --> 00:38:46,670
details and and the thing that freaked

997
00:38:51,070 --> 00:38:48,860
them out the most was not that he got

998
00:38:53,650 --> 00:38:51,080
detailed descriptions of the buildings

999
00:38:55,660 --> 00:38:53,660
and and sort of the layout and that kind

1000
00:38:57,610 --> 00:38:55,670
of a thing but that he was able to

1001
00:39:01,480 --> 00:38:57,620
actually list this is Pat price

1002
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:01,490
specifically was able to list top secret

1003
00:39:06,970 --> 00:39:03,890
special access projects that were going

1004
00:39:08,770 --> 00:39:06,980
on at that time you know and and the

1005
00:39:10,510 --> 00:39:08,780
name of this overall facility you know

1006
00:39:13,990 --> 00:39:10,520
like he was able to actually get those

1007
00:39:17,050 --> 00:39:14,000
names correctly and and that then sent

1008
00:39:19,270 --> 00:39:17,060
shockwaves all up and down the entire US

1009
00:39:20,980 --> 00:39:19,280
intelligence community every agency you

1010
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:20,990
know and I spoke to Ken kress who was

1011
00:39:25,540 --> 00:39:23,690
the undercover physicist that that sort

1012
00:39:27,130 --> 00:39:25,550
of managed all of this you know at

1013
00:39:29,050 --> 00:39:27,140
length about this you know we I spent a

1014
00:39:31,270 --> 00:39:29,060
week with him at his house and we talked

1015
00:39:32,230 --> 00:39:31,280
quite a bit about this and it haunted

1016
00:39:33,250 --> 00:39:32,240
him for years

1017
00:39:34,720 --> 00:39:33,260
you know this stuff because he couldn't

1018
00:39:37,990 --> 00:39:34,730
understand how it worked but he knew

1019
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:38,000
that there was something that was not

1020
00:39:43,330 --> 00:39:40,850
explainable that it had happened and and

1021
00:39:45,130 --> 00:39:43,340
created this outcome and and so he talks

1022
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:45,140
about all of that in the film you know

1023
00:39:47,350 --> 00:39:46,370
he comes out in the film actually for

1024
00:39:49,060 --> 00:39:47,360
the first time I mean he's been

1025
00:39:51,700 --> 00:39:49,070
undercover all of these years ever since

1026
00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:51,710
and I actually you know through a lot of

1027
00:39:55,630 --> 00:39:53,330
communication with him got him to agree

1028
00:39:57,070 --> 00:39:55,640
to come forward so he came forward and

1029
00:39:59,100 --> 00:39:57,080
kind of confirmed a lot of these stories

1030
00:40:01,720 --> 00:39:59,110
as did kick green who later became the

1031
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:01,730
director of life sciences for CIA so

1032
00:40:06,940 --> 00:40:04,450
they're both very credible so basically

1033
00:40:08,530 --> 00:40:06,950
you know Russell and Howell I get called

1034
00:40:11,350 --> 00:40:08,540
into the principal's office you know

1035
00:40:12,700 --> 00:40:11,360
they get called into CIA and basically

1036
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:12,710
like you know you guys got to tell us

1037
00:40:16,420 --> 00:40:14,330
what the hell you're doing here you know

1038
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:16,430
and how you got that information and and

1039
00:40:21,100 --> 00:40:18,290
Russell has basically said you know look

1040
00:40:22,900 --> 00:40:21,110
if you you know let us come and do some

1041
00:40:25,540 --> 00:40:22,910
work with you and let us do some more

1042
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:25,550
research and you know you tell us what

1043
00:40:28,060 --> 00:40:26,810
needs to be classified and what doesn't

1044
00:40:30,250 --> 00:40:28,070
and we'll work with you and so they

1045
00:40:31,660 --> 00:40:30,260
basically started funding Stanford

1046
00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:31,670
Research Institute's who do work for the

1047
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:33,770
federal government and over a 20-year

1048
00:40:38,650 --> 00:40:36,290
period that then became several

1049
00:40:41,270 --> 00:40:38,660
different projects and agencies that

1050
00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:41,280
used this

1051
00:40:45,500 --> 00:40:43,170
tool which later on this sort of

1052
00:40:48,260 --> 00:40:45,510
disowned and said never worked right and

1053
00:40:50,690 --> 00:40:48,270
I mean the work of Pat price and many

1054
00:40:52,580 --> 00:40:50,700
others in that time that the the

1055
00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:52,590
intelligence agency was working with us

1056
00:40:58,820 --> 00:40:56,130
our eye on all this we then get to the

1057
00:41:00,350 --> 00:40:58,830
point where it's it's like Pat price is

1058
00:41:03,170 --> 00:41:00,360
too good to be true and they want them

1059
00:41:05,150 --> 00:41:03,180
for themselves and so long s are right

1060
00:41:08,060 --> 00:41:05,160
at this point can you tell us how this

1061
00:41:10,370 --> 00:41:08,070
happened well you know Russell tells a

1062
00:41:12,170 --> 00:41:10,380
lot of stories about going to visit Pat

1063
00:41:14,150 --> 00:41:12,180
price on a farm in Virginia you know

1064
00:41:15,860 --> 00:41:14,160
eventually you know the CIA is by

1065
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:15,870
definition not going to trust anyone

1066
00:41:18,820 --> 00:41:17,490
yeah you know like they think that

1067
00:41:20,690 --> 00:41:18,830
they're constantly being you know

1068
00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:20,700
potentially lied to or there's something

1069
00:41:24,890 --> 00:41:22,850
going on if they don't understand it so

1070
00:41:27,530 --> 00:41:24,900
they decided that they were gonna cancel

1071
00:41:29,060 --> 00:41:27,540
ssris contract and and basically may

1072
00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:29,070
make Pat price who they thought was

1073
00:41:33,350 --> 00:41:30,810
their very you know best remote viewer

1074
00:41:36,620 --> 00:41:33,360
that was the most perplexing an agent of

1075
00:41:38,450 --> 00:41:36,630
CIA and sequester him on a farm and then

1076
00:41:40,340 --> 00:41:38,460
monitor him 24 hours a day to make sure

1077
00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:40,350
nobody was feeding him information and

1078
00:41:45,170 --> 00:41:42,090
then and then give him harder and harder

1079
00:41:47,750 --> 00:41:45,180
tasks to do and and he did every single

1080
00:41:50,110 --> 00:41:47,760
one of those tasks expertly you know

1081
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:50,120
they had him spying on embassies and

1082
00:41:53,720 --> 00:41:52,050
revealing certain things about like

1083
00:41:56,270 --> 00:41:53,730
terrorist training camps and things like

1084
00:41:57,170 --> 00:41:56,280
that that nobody knew about and and but

1085
00:42:00,080 --> 00:41:57,180
they would go and look and they would

1086
00:42:02,330 --> 00:42:00,090
find it to be true and and uh you know

1087
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:02,340
about four months after being inside a

1088
00:42:08,810 --> 00:42:06,090
CIA he was he died you know mysterious

1089
00:42:10,250 --> 00:42:08,820
yeah this mysterious death and I know a

1090
00:42:13,010 --> 00:42:10,260
lot of the people in your film have

1091
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:13,020
varying theories on how that happened I

1092
00:42:16,550 --> 00:42:14,850
mean it's crazy you know why would they

1093
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:16,560
hire a guy and then he just all of a

1094
00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:19,290
sudden kicks the bucket naturally some

1095
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:21,570
people think but could you maybe run us

1096
00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:23,010
through a couple of those theories of

1097
00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:24,930
what the people in your film what they

1098
00:42:28,970 --> 00:42:26,850
think happened at that price I mean he

1099
00:42:31,790 --> 00:42:28,980
even like predicted his own death in one

1100
00:42:33,830 --> 00:42:31,800
point am I correct yeah he did he you

1101
00:42:36,620 --> 00:42:33,840
know about two days before he died you

1102
00:42:38,090 --> 00:42:36,630
know he was going out to see you know

1103
00:42:40,550 --> 00:42:38,100
the folks at SR I he was gonna make a

1104
00:42:41,900 --> 00:42:40,560
stop in Vegas and at the airport he

1105
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:41,910
bought his his wife a million-dollar

1106
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:44,450
life-insurance policy you know he

1107
00:42:48,230 --> 00:42:46,770
cancelled the trip to go see his son and

1108
00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:48,240
he kind of said this very heartfelt

1109
00:42:52,890 --> 00:42:51,210
goodbye to his friends and family that a

1110
00:42:55,380 --> 00:42:52,900
lot of people thought were odd

1111
00:42:57,599 --> 00:42:55,390
you know and then you know yeah and that

1112
00:43:00,420 --> 00:42:57,609
was it and and you know there's Russell

1113
00:43:03,180 --> 00:43:00,430
I mean I'm sorry Cal and kit both think

1114
00:43:05,609 --> 00:43:03,190
that maybe the KGB gentlemen the Soviets

1115
00:43:08,519 --> 00:43:05,619
were constantly following everything

1116
00:43:11,309 --> 00:43:08,529
that SR I was doing other people think

1117
00:43:13,079 --> 00:43:11,319
maybe it had to do with the the church

1118
00:43:15,809 --> 00:43:13,089
that he was involved with where he had

1119
00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:15,819
sort of been possibly giving them some

1120
00:43:19,559 --> 00:43:17,170
information that maybe he shouldn't have

1121
00:43:20,579 --> 00:43:19,569
some people think the CIA did him in you

1122
00:43:22,230 --> 00:43:20,589
know like I mean there's there's a lot

1123
00:43:23,819 --> 00:43:22,240
of different theory some people you know

1124
00:43:26,849 --> 00:43:23,829
remote viewers looked at him after his

1125
00:43:29,099 --> 00:43:26,859
death just for fun and and you know came

1126
00:43:30,420 --> 00:43:29,109
back saying that he was still alive and

1127
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:30,430
working in an underground facility

1128
00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:33,490
somewhere so you know we don't know I

1129
00:43:36,839 --> 00:43:36,249
mean it's all speculative but but it's

1130
00:43:38,700 --> 00:43:36,849
um

1131
00:43:40,079 --> 00:43:38,710
and the guy had a heart condition you

1132
00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:40,089
know he could have died of a heart

1133
00:43:44,999 --> 00:43:41,890
condition I mean we don't know you know

1134
00:43:47,460 --> 00:43:45,009
but the Soviets do have ways of they had

1135
00:43:48,690 --> 00:43:47,470
ways of sort of amping up in conditions

1136
00:43:51,059 --> 00:43:48,700
that they knew that people already had

1137
00:43:53,539 --> 00:43:51,069
and he pat claimed that he was poisoned

1138
00:43:56,690 --> 00:43:53,549
you know in some food that he ate

1139
00:43:59,190 --> 00:43:56,700
shortly before he died to a friend so

1140
00:44:01,200 --> 00:43:59,200
you know yeah it could have been several

1141
00:44:02,970 --> 00:44:01,210
things yeah there's some pretty far-out

1142
00:44:05,309 --> 00:44:02,980
one said you mentioned the film we won't

1143
00:44:07,769 --> 00:44:05,319
give them away here but it reminded me a

1144
00:44:09,839 --> 00:44:07,779
lot of the Jedi hey I won't go any go

1145
00:44:11,370 --> 00:44:09,849
there well you know it's like a lot of

1146
00:44:13,049 --> 00:44:11,380
people like might liken this to

1147
00:44:15,180 --> 00:44:13,059
something like men who stare at goats or

1148
00:44:16,710 --> 00:44:15,190
some of these other movies this movie is

1149
00:44:18,269 --> 00:44:16,720
nothing like any of the other movies

1150
00:44:20,220 --> 00:44:18,279
that have been done on this subject I

1151
00:44:21,950 --> 00:44:20,230
really think that anybody that goes into

1152
00:44:23,609 --> 00:44:21,960
this film and washes it even if you're

1153
00:44:25,349 --> 00:44:23,619
skeptical at least if you're a

1154
00:44:28,349 --> 00:44:25,359
enlightened skeptic where you sort of

1155
00:44:31,739 --> 00:44:28,359
are open-minded I think that this movie

1156
00:44:34,289 --> 00:44:31,749
is going to show you that reality is not

1157
00:44:36,539 --> 00:44:34,299
as set as we think it is and and it's

1158
00:44:39,390 --> 00:44:36,549
going to show you that that a lot of

1159
00:44:41,420 --> 00:44:39,400
very serious people who have devoted

1160
00:44:44,249 --> 00:44:41,430
enormous amounts of their life to this

1161
00:44:45,839 --> 00:44:44,259
take this topic very seriously you know

1162
00:44:47,940 --> 00:44:45,849
and and I so I think it's something that

1163
00:44:50,249 --> 00:44:47,950
can really upset the applecart of sort

1164
00:44:53,720 --> 00:44:50,259
of the status quo of our understanding

1165
00:44:56,309 --> 00:44:53,730
of science and even spirituality in ways

1166
00:44:57,599 --> 00:44:56,319
you know and so I'd like to think that

1167
00:45:01,440 --> 00:44:57,609
the film really contributes to that

1168
00:45:03,450 --> 00:45:01,450
conversation because so much of the good

1169
00:45:04,710 --> 00:45:03,460
work that has been done it has Intel

1170
00:45:06,690 --> 00:45:04,720
just right now

1171
00:45:08,430 --> 00:45:06,700
not been publicly really discussed in

1172
00:45:11,130 --> 00:45:08,440
any real way so this how this film is

1173
00:45:12,660 --> 00:45:11,140
the first opportunity that that all of

1174
00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:12,670
these people have had collectively to

1175
00:45:16,109 --> 00:45:14,050
kind of tell this story so I think

1176
00:45:18,390 --> 00:45:16,119
there's some importance to that I think

1177
00:45:20,069 --> 00:45:18,400
so collectively is a big key word to I

1178
00:45:22,620 --> 00:45:20,079
want to get to that in a little bit but

1179
00:45:24,839 --> 00:45:22,630
the collective consciousness but um you

1180
00:45:27,420 --> 00:45:24,849
know sort of wrapping up our talk here

1181
00:45:29,130 --> 00:45:27,430
at Lance about the movie um you

1182
00:45:31,319 --> 00:45:29,140
mentioned also in the film or you

1183
00:45:32,579 --> 00:45:31,329
interview I should say remote viewer

1184
00:45:35,490 --> 00:45:32,589
0:01

1185
00:45:39,059 --> 00:45:35,500
this was really cool this was a psychic

1186
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:39,069
soldier and he was like the most psychic

1187
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:42,010
soldier that they'd ever seen so how did

1188
00:45:47,099 --> 00:45:43,690
this come about when did the military

1189
00:45:50,099 --> 00:45:47,109
get involved to this well once see when

1190
00:45:51,780 --> 00:45:50,109
SSRIs contract at CIA was was cancelled

1191
00:45:53,970 --> 00:45:51,790
and they kind of co-opted Pat price that

1192
00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:53,980
did not end the Sr I involvement with

1193
00:45:57,270 --> 00:45:55,450
the government because we think of

1194
00:45:59,520 --> 00:45:57,280
government as this monolithic kind of

1195
00:46:01,319 --> 00:45:59,530
boss figure but it's really like all of

1196
00:46:03,599 --> 00:46:01,329
these splintered agencies and many

1197
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:03,609
different agendas and you know different

1198
00:46:07,589 --> 00:46:06,010
kind of heads and NSRI had contacts with

1199
00:46:09,300 --> 00:46:07,599
many different agencies so they created

1200
00:46:13,650 --> 00:46:09,310
a contract with Defense Intelligence

1201
00:46:16,740 --> 00:46:13,660
Agency and as part of that defense

1202
00:46:18,809 --> 00:46:16,750
intelligence agency wanted to train army

1203
00:46:22,349 --> 00:46:18,819
volunteers to see if they could create

1204
00:46:24,359 --> 00:46:22,359
an army psychic core and so they sent

1205
00:46:28,770 --> 00:46:24,369
out a questionnaire to I think you know

1206
00:46:30,870 --> 00:46:28,780
3,000 army intelligence officers in Fort

1207
00:46:31,460 --> 00:46:30,880
Meade Maryland disguised as something

1208
00:46:34,410 --> 00:46:31,470
else

1209
00:46:36,240 --> 00:46:34,420
to see who might be you know sort of

1210
00:46:38,790 --> 00:46:36,250
more interested in this kind of subject

1211
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:38,800
matter or claimed to have intuitive

1212
00:46:41,609 --> 00:46:40,450
ability and that kind of thing and there

1213
00:46:43,620 --> 00:46:41,619
were certain markers they were looking

1214
00:46:45,300 --> 00:46:43,630
for you know like in remote viewers they

1215
00:46:47,069 --> 00:46:45,310
were looking for things like people who

1216
00:46:49,109 --> 00:46:47,079
are outgoing people who were very

1217
00:46:50,790 --> 00:46:49,119
balanced you know because you don't want

1218
00:46:53,460 --> 00:46:50,800
the crazy psychic with this like you

1219
00:46:54,900 --> 00:46:53,470
know crystal ball and turban and you

1220
00:46:56,550 --> 00:46:54,910
know you those were not the typical

1221
00:46:58,050 --> 00:46:56,560
remote viewers that did the best work

1222
00:47:00,450 --> 00:46:58,060
they found it was people who were just

1223
00:47:04,650 --> 00:47:00,460
really good at other things very

1224
00:47:07,950 --> 00:47:04,660
personable people who were considered

1225
00:47:09,150 --> 00:47:07,960
successful in other fields maybe and and

1226
00:47:11,970 --> 00:47:09,160
also people who had had near-death

1227
00:47:15,030 --> 00:47:11,980
experiences you know and and Joe

1228
00:47:17,849 --> 00:47:15,040
mcmoneagle was a Vietnam vet you know he

1229
00:47:18,340 --> 00:47:17,859
was a Army soldier on the ground in

1230
00:47:21,730 --> 00:47:18,350
Vietnam

1231
00:47:24,070 --> 00:47:21,740
and he's the guy who claimed to have a

1232
00:47:25,960 --> 00:47:24,080
knack for avoiding landmines and and who

1233
00:47:27,550 --> 00:47:25,970
they would put on point because he'd be

1234
00:47:30,970 --> 00:47:27,560
able to go left instead of right and

1235
00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:30,980
avoid that mine and so they called him

1236
00:47:33,610 --> 00:47:31,850
in and he had had a near-death

1237
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:33,620
experience as well he got into a bar

1238
00:47:36,970 --> 00:47:35,450
fight I think in Germany and he went

1239
00:47:38,230 --> 00:47:36,980
into a coma and I could be wrong about

1240
00:47:40,510 --> 00:47:38,240
the bar fight I mean it could be that he

1241
00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:40,520
just simply got into an accident you

1242
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:42,650
know or something like that but I like

1243
00:47:46,030 --> 00:47:44,930
to say bar fight just cuz I I seem to

1244
00:47:53,170 --> 00:47:46,040
remember that because it fits his

1245
00:47:56,320 --> 00:47:53,180
personality like but but Joe you know

1246
00:47:59,440 --> 00:47:56,330
and they whittled this 3,000 down to 30

1247
00:48:02,050 --> 00:47:59,450
and then the army took the best six of

1248
00:48:04,540 --> 00:48:02,060
those and sent them to s RI and then how

1249
00:48:06,250 --> 00:48:04,550
and Russell ran them through their paces

1250
00:48:08,590 --> 00:48:06,260
doing remote viewing and what they found

1251
00:48:10,870 --> 00:48:08,600
was really anybody could sit down in the

1252
00:48:13,120 --> 00:48:10,880
chair at SR I and exhibit some kind of

1253
00:48:14,470 --> 00:48:13,130
ESP ability you know it was very rare

1254
00:48:16,630 --> 00:48:14,480
that someone couldn't get something

1255
00:48:18,490 --> 00:48:16,640
right you know so they they found was a

1256
00:48:19,630 --> 00:48:18,500
lot more common than sort of people

1257
00:48:20,860 --> 00:48:19,640
believed and they didn't have a ton of

1258
00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:20,870
funding so they usually they would just

1259
00:48:25,030 --> 00:48:23,090
pull in a scientist from the next lab or

1260
00:48:26,260 --> 00:48:25,040
something and get like wonderful results

1261
00:48:29,590 --> 00:48:26,270
and then that person would get kind of

1262
00:48:31,750 --> 00:48:29,600
co-opted into their program and and Joe

1263
00:48:35,140 --> 00:48:31,760
just happened to be the very first sort

1264
00:48:36,550 --> 00:48:35,150
of real army subject that did become one

1265
00:48:38,110 --> 00:48:36,560
of their absolute best because I think

1266
00:48:41,140 --> 00:48:38,120
that psychic ability kind of acts as a

1267
00:48:43,870 --> 00:48:41,150
bell curve based on sort of you know the

1268
00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:43,880
evidence of in the film and and some

1269
00:48:47,230 --> 00:48:45,290
people are at the top of that curve some

1270
00:48:49,030 --> 00:48:47,240
people may be down at the bottom Joe is

1271
00:48:51,370 --> 00:48:49,040
definitely at the top you know Joel told

1272
00:48:53,980 --> 00:48:51,380
me that these days he's retired and and

1273
00:48:56,020 --> 00:48:53,990
when he does remote viewing we held you

1274
00:48:58,060 --> 00:48:56,030
remote viewing for you know prospecting

1275
00:48:59,830 --> 00:48:58,070
and for you know corporations looking to

1276
00:49:00,850 --> 00:48:59,840
do product development ten years out and

1277
00:49:02,200 --> 00:49:00,860
you know stuff like that these are

1278
00:49:07,110 --> 00:49:02,210
things that remote viewing is being used

1279
00:49:09,910 --> 00:49:07,120
for now and and Joe basically would

1280
00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:09,920
watch jeopardy in the evening during the

1281
00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:11,690
commercials you know he reaches over

1282
00:49:14,890 --> 00:49:13,610
grabs his pad does his task for the

1283
00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:14,900
client puts it down and goes back to

1284
00:49:19,030 --> 00:49:17,570
watching TV you know that's how good Joe

1285
00:49:20,410 --> 00:49:19,040
was I mean you know he didn't even need

1286
00:49:22,690 --> 00:49:20,420
to go into something like huge altered

1287
00:49:24,900 --> 00:49:22,700
state or whatever you know he's just he

1288
00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:24,910
had mastered that ability and and and

1289
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:27,410
Joe won the Legion of Merit Award which

1290
00:49:31,720 --> 00:49:29,410
is the highest award the military gives

1291
00:49:34,079 --> 00:49:31,730
for non-combatants

1292
00:49:37,300 --> 00:49:34,089
you know for many many successful

1293
00:49:40,690 --> 00:49:37,310
missions you know using remote viewing

1294
00:49:44,700 --> 00:49:40,700
to find things like down bombers you

1295
00:49:47,050 --> 00:49:44,710
know hostages in Iran to find you know

1296
00:49:49,300 --> 00:49:47,060
classified submarines and stuff like

1297
00:49:52,210 --> 00:49:49,310
that but actually a lot of what Joe also

1298
00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:52,220
did was counterintelligence you know

1299
00:49:57,849 --> 00:49:53,930
he'd you know just interestingly Joe

1300
00:50:00,640 --> 00:49:57,859
would be often tasked on us targets you

1301
00:50:02,950 --> 00:50:00,650
know to to see if the Russians could be

1302
00:50:04,839 --> 00:50:02,960
seeing what was going on you know and

1303
00:50:07,480 --> 00:50:04,849
this was a huge concern you know huge

1304
00:50:08,560 --> 00:50:07,490
concern for the military and and you

1305
00:50:10,089 --> 00:50:08,570
know try to develop some kind of

1306
00:50:13,359 --> 00:50:10,099
countermeasure to that which was very

1307
00:50:15,069 --> 00:50:13,369
difficult to do I can only imagine yeah

1308
00:50:18,250 --> 00:50:15,079
I mean and you have this whole idea that

1309
00:50:21,130 --> 00:50:18,260
we in America were pooh-poohing this

1310
00:50:24,490 --> 00:50:21,140
whole psychokinetic psychokinesis ESP

1311
00:50:27,010 --> 00:50:24,500
well you know it's very possible that

1312
00:50:29,109 --> 00:50:27,020
Russia was taking it very very seriously

1313
00:50:30,370 --> 00:50:29,119
so oh oh they were taking a debt

1314
00:50:32,290 --> 00:50:30,380
seriously I mean they're taking it much

1315
00:50:34,420 --> 00:50:32,300
more seriously than we were and what's

1316
00:50:37,569 --> 00:50:34,430
interesting is now all over the world

1317
00:50:39,430 --> 00:50:37,579
this is gone completely underground you

1318
00:50:41,890 --> 00:50:39,440
know in in the I talked I interviewed

1319
00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:41,900
for the film a Ukrainian scientist that

1320
00:50:46,200 --> 00:50:43,490
is a pair of psychologists that works in

1321
00:50:49,089 --> 00:50:46,210
this field doing experiments and you

1322
00:50:50,740 --> 00:50:49,099
know that's the former Soviet Union he

1323
00:50:53,170 --> 00:50:50,750
says that today in the former Soviet

1324
00:50:54,970 --> 00:50:53,180
Union Ukraine was the home of Nina

1325
00:50:56,349 --> 00:50:54,980
kallana who was one of the greatest you

1326
00:50:59,950 --> 00:50:56,359
know sort of psychics in that sort of

1327
00:51:01,599 --> 00:50:59,960
era of the Cold War now they they don't

1328
00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:01,609
even allow books to be sold on the

1329
00:51:06,490 --> 00:51:03,530
subject there you know like they they

1330
00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:06,500
it's verboten for anybody to even really

1331
00:51:11,559 --> 00:51:09,290
talk about the subject you know so it's

1332
00:51:13,150 --> 00:51:11,569
gone completely underground now we have

1333
00:51:15,370 --> 00:51:13,160
to ask is that just because of cultural

1334
00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:15,380
bias or is that because there's some

1335
00:51:18,849 --> 00:51:17,450
agency at work saying you know we don't

1336
00:51:20,319 --> 00:51:18,859
want people out there talking about this

1337
00:51:22,780 --> 00:51:20,329
because it works a little too well I

1338
00:51:24,609 --> 00:51:22,790
don't know that's a good point and I

1339
00:51:26,650 --> 00:51:24,619
mean we even have Russell Targ towards

1340
00:51:30,700 --> 00:51:26,660
the end of your film going to a

1341
00:51:32,349 --> 00:51:30,710
conference where people were I am I

1342
00:51:34,780 --> 00:51:32,359
correct they were they were training to

1343
00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:34,790
a remote view and a bunch of them could

1344
00:51:40,089 --> 00:51:37,970
actually do it yeah yeah no no that was

1345
00:51:41,470 --> 00:51:40,099
actually a big test for me because you

1346
00:51:43,240 --> 00:51:41,480
know me as a documentary filmmaker I'm a

1347
00:51:44,680 --> 00:51:43,250
journalist I'm not gonna hide you know

1348
00:51:45,160 --> 00:51:44,690
the results of what I get if I'm you

1349
00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:45,170
know spending

1350
00:51:48,339 --> 00:51:46,490
all this time to shoot it it's like I'm

1351
00:51:50,049 --> 00:51:48,349
gonna report it out and I was hoping gee

1352
00:51:52,270 --> 00:51:50,059
I hope we get something good maybe one

1353
00:51:54,130 --> 00:51:52,280
or two people will will get this right

1354
00:51:56,049 --> 00:51:54,140
answer like they sent you know Paul

1355
00:51:59,049 --> 00:51:56,059
Smith to go hide somewhere and in in

1356
00:52:00,220 --> 00:51:59,059
Vegas where this conference was and the

1357
00:52:02,650 --> 00:52:00,230
audience was supposed to basically

1358
00:52:06,309 --> 00:52:02,660
psychically tune in to where he was and

1359
00:52:07,900 --> 00:52:06,319
and and draw that and I walked around

1360
00:52:10,780 --> 00:52:07,910
from table to table with the camera and

1361
00:52:12,520 --> 00:52:10,790
I filmed all of these things and and I

1362
00:52:13,930 --> 00:52:12,530
start to see all of these parallels like

1363
00:52:15,069 --> 00:52:13,940
people were drawing triangles I saw

1364
00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:15,079
triangles again and again

1365
00:52:19,960 --> 00:52:17,450
I saw waterfalls again and again I saw

1366
00:52:21,910 --> 00:52:19,970
fish I saw coins at the bottom of pond

1367
00:52:23,470 --> 00:52:21,920
you know like all of these things we're

1368
00:52:26,039 --> 00:52:23,480
coming up you know just as people were

1369
00:52:28,450 --> 00:52:26,049
drawing them you know very quietly and

1370
00:52:30,670 --> 00:52:28,460
he came back with footage and he played

1371
00:52:31,630 --> 00:52:30,680
the footage on a projector and on in the

1372
00:52:34,510 --> 00:52:31,640
room and everybody kind of gasped

1373
00:52:37,480 --> 00:52:34,520
because the the target was a indoor

1374
00:52:40,390 --> 00:52:37,490
waterfall fountain and in an aquarium

1375
00:52:42,940 --> 00:52:40,400
with a lot of fish around and and then

1376
00:52:46,180 --> 00:52:42,950
these like triangular glass windows

1377
00:52:47,589 --> 00:52:46,190
overhead you know so so so many of the

1378
00:52:49,180 --> 00:52:47,599
onions I mean I guess the staff said

1379
00:52:50,319 --> 00:52:49,190
like 80% of the audience got it right

1380
00:52:52,420 --> 00:52:50,329
many of them had never done it before

1381
00:52:54,460 --> 00:52:52,430
right and it sort of clears up that

1382
00:52:58,180 --> 00:52:54,470
misconception that like only a certain

1383
00:53:00,819 --> 00:52:58,190
type of person or with an ability can

1384
00:53:02,109 --> 00:53:00,829
can do this but that's clearly not the

1385
00:53:04,210 --> 00:53:02,119
case and I found that really fascinating

1386
00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:04,220
torture and to the film this idea that

1387
00:53:09,700 --> 00:53:08,210
anyone can do this you know anyone can

1388
00:53:12,039 --> 00:53:09,710
do this not everyone is going to be a

1389
00:53:14,770 --> 00:53:12,049
virtuoso at it you know and and there's

1390
00:53:16,329 --> 00:53:14,780
also such a thing as reverse sigh you

1391
00:53:17,799 --> 00:53:16,339
know like I hung out like one of the

1392
00:53:22,180 --> 00:53:17,809
extras on my youtube channel

1393
00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:22,190
waking universe TV is about these

1394
00:53:26,650 --> 00:53:24,170
gamblers in Vegas using remote viewing

1395
00:53:28,599 --> 00:53:26,660
to play the casino in sports betting and

1396
00:53:31,620 --> 00:53:28,609
there's a physicist named Marty

1397
00:53:33,789 --> 00:53:31,630
Rosenblatt and he does this and and and

1398
00:53:36,549 --> 00:53:33,799
oftentimes people will get the exact

1399
00:53:37,750 --> 00:53:36,559
wrong result you know because maybe

1400
00:53:39,160 --> 00:53:37,760
because they're scary they're scared of

1401
00:53:40,839 --> 00:53:39,170
it or you know they don't believe it's

1402
00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:40,849
gonna work or they're just tuning into

1403
00:53:45,329 --> 00:53:42,410
the wrong time line I mean I don't know

1404
00:53:48,880 --> 00:53:45,339
what it is but they get it wrong and and

1405
00:53:50,170 --> 00:53:48,890
that to me is is equally interesting I

1406
00:53:52,270 --> 00:53:50,180
mean it's happened to me you know like I

1407
00:53:54,280 --> 00:53:52,280
mean I've wrestle has an ESP trainer app

1408
00:53:55,780 --> 00:53:54,290
for free on your iphone you can get it

1409
00:53:58,390 --> 00:53:55,790
it's called the SP trainer I've played

1410
00:53:59,140 --> 00:53:58,400
it and gotten like horrible results like

1411
00:54:00,999 --> 00:53:59,150
when I first started

1412
00:54:02,470 --> 00:54:01,009
and Russell told me well that's because

1413
00:54:03,730 --> 00:54:02,480
you're using your psychic abilities to

1414
00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:03,740
get the wrong results because you're

1415
00:54:07,210 --> 00:54:04,970
afraid of what it's gonna happen to your

1416
00:54:09,549 --> 00:54:07,220
world if you get the right one yeah it's

1417
00:54:13,210 --> 00:54:09,559
our subconscious you know yeah played

1418
00:54:15,160 --> 00:54:13,220
there for short moments I mean we could

1419
00:54:17,829 --> 00:54:15,170
talk forever about the film and there's

1420
00:54:20,499 --> 00:54:17,839
so much more to it but I would not be

1421
00:54:23,470 --> 00:54:20,509
doing my you falah djegal job if I

1422
00:54:24,999 --> 00:54:23,480
didn't ask you about UFOs man so you

1423
00:54:27,549 --> 00:54:25,009
know sort of moving away from Russell

1424
00:54:29,589 --> 00:54:27,559
Targ and the remote viewing project

1425
00:54:31,150 --> 00:54:29,599
we'll get back to in it back to it in

1426
00:54:33,579 --> 00:54:31,160
just a second here but I want to know

1427
00:54:36,549 --> 00:54:33,589
have you ever yourself personally had

1428
00:54:40,029 --> 00:54:36,559
any sort of UFO experience encounter

1429
00:54:42,789 --> 00:54:40,039
sighting anything like that well yeah I

1430
00:54:43,839 --> 00:54:42,799
have but but I'm also gonna say that

1431
00:54:46,239 --> 00:54:43,849
this is something that comes up too

1432
00:54:48,249 --> 00:54:46,249
often through remote viewing geo

1433
00:54:50,049 --> 00:54:48,259
mcmoneagle is on record you know saying

1434
00:54:53,519 --> 00:54:50,059
that often he was asked to I'm about

1435
00:54:56,200 --> 00:54:53,529
often but at times asked to remote a few

1436
00:54:58,239 --> 00:54:56,210
satellite imagery with UFOs on them you

1437
00:54:59,650 --> 00:54:58,249
know to find out what they were you know

1438
00:55:00,640 --> 00:54:59,660
in particular to find out how the

1439
00:55:02,950 --> 00:55:00,650
propulsion system

1440
00:55:06,729 --> 00:55:02,960
you know operated you know things like

1441
00:55:08,079 --> 00:55:06,739
that you know there are definitely a lot

1442
00:55:10,180 --> 00:55:08,089
of remote viewers that start to

1443
00:55:12,269 --> 00:55:10,190
encounter extraterrestrials and I think

1444
00:55:15,849 --> 00:55:12,279
that if we are going to accept the fact

1445
00:55:17,589 --> 00:55:15,859
that your consciousness can go anywhere

1446
00:55:19,390 --> 00:55:17,599
you know and then it's not just confined

1447
00:55:22,349 --> 00:55:19,400
to your own mind and then furthermore

1448
00:55:24,609 --> 00:55:22,359
that there's no time or space between

1449
00:55:26,620 --> 00:55:24,619
your consciousness and what it wants to

1450
00:55:29,019 --> 00:55:26,630
look at other than your own imagination

1451
00:55:32,289 --> 00:55:29,029
and intent then then we also have to say

1452
00:55:33,670 --> 00:55:32,299
that when it comes to ufology and when

1453
00:55:35,349 --> 00:55:33,680
it comes to sort of contact and

1454
00:55:37,630 --> 00:55:35,359
disclosure and all these other kind of

1455
00:55:40,059 --> 00:55:37,640
buzz words that you hear I think it's

1456
00:55:41,729 --> 00:55:40,069
really up to us you know it's up to you

1457
00:55:44,289 --> 00:55:41,739
and me it's up to someone individually

1458
00:55:46,210 --> 00:55:44,299
to basically use their imagination and

1459
00:55:47,380 --> 00:55:46,220
reach out and make that connection you

1460
00:55:48,970 --> 00:55:47,390
know you know and make it happen that

1461
00:55:51,069 --> 00:55:48,980
that's just you know because your

1462
00:55:52,660 --> 00:55:51,079
consciousness is probably the most

1463
00:55:55,180 --> 00:55:52,670
powerful tool of communication that you

1464
00:55:57,279 --> 00:55:55,190
actually have but it's so beaten down in

1465
00:55:58,420 --> 00:55:57,289
Western society you know it's so

1466
00:56:00,220 --> 00:55:58,430
immersion alized

1467
00:56:02,319 --> 00:56:00,230
and and you know then frankly when it

1468
00:56:04,420 --> 00:56:02,329
comes to my own experiences that's why I

1469
00:56:06,180 --> 00:56:04,430
never talk about them you know I don't

1470
00:56:09,309 --> 00:56:06,190
talk about my own sort of personal

1471
00:56:12,550 --> 00:56:09,319
psychic experiences my own personal UFO

1472
00:56:14,380 --> 00:56:12,560
experiences because if I did

1473
00:56:16,330 --> 00:56:14,390
I've often thought like well maybe that

1474
00:56:18,370 --> 00:56:16,340
might make me less of a credible

1475
00:56:20,980 --> 00:56:18,380
journalist or it might make me you know

1476
00:56:23,290 --> 00:56:20,990
more sort of out there and and you know

1477
00:56:25,870 --> 00:56:23,300
not not taken as seriously or whatever

1478
00:56:27,430 --> 00:56:25,880
and I've worked for you know almost 20

1479
00:56:30,370 --> 00:56:27,440
years now in the in the film industry so

1480
00:56:32,020 --> 00:56:30,380
so it's a it can be a you know there's

1481
00:56:34,780 --> 00:56:32,030
some stigma to that but on the other

1482
00:56:36,010 --> 00:56:34,790
hand even in taking on this film I

1483
00:56:37,390 --> 00:56:36,020
finally just said to myself you know I

1484
00:56:39,640 --> 00:56:37,400
don't care about what anybody else

1485
00:56:41,350 --> 00:56:39,650
thinks I'm doing this because I feel

1486
00:56:42,670 --> 00:56:41,360
that that this is such an important

1487
00:56:44,560 --> 00:56:42,680
subject matter and it's such an

1488
00:56:46,630 --> 00:56:44,570
important part of history that needs to

1489
00:56:49,540 --> 00:56:46,640
be preserved and and I'm honored to be

1490
00:56:51,280 --> 00:56:49,550
one to do it and so I mean yeah I mean I

1491
00:56:53,170 --> 00:56:51,290
never talk about this stuff to anybody

1492
00:56:54,940 --> 00:56:53,180
but I'll tell you about it you know and

1493
00:56:57,400 --> 00:56:54,950
it's crazy you know and I don't even

1494
00:56:59,800 --> 00:56:57,410
even say definitively it's a UFO quote

1495
00:57:01,630 --> 00:56:59,810
UFO because I didn't I have not seen you

1496
00:57:02,920 --> 00:57:01,640
know a flying saucer land on my front

1497
00:57:04,630 --> 00:57:02,930
lawn I have not had that kind of

1498
00:57:06,820 --> 00:57:04,640
experience I've had plenty of

1499
00:57:08,800 --> 00:57:06,830
experiences through meditation through

1500
00:57:10,300 --> 00:57:08,810
through dream time where you know you

1501
00:57:12,280 --> 00:57:10,310
you feel like you get impressions and

1502
00:57:14,440 --> 00:57:12,290
images and later on there's some sort of

1503
00:57:15,910 --> 00:57:14,450
verification to that which you know

1504
00:57:18,250 --> 00:57:15,920
could be extraterrestrial I don't know

1505
00:57:20,020 --> 00:57:18,260
but there's one story in particular

1506
00:57:25,030 --> 00:57:20,030
which is so blow mind that it's haunted

1507
00:57:27,130 --> 00:57:25,040
me for many years and that's that when I

1508
00:57:29,260 --> 00:57:27,140
was a little more than a teenager I'd

1509
00:57:30,580 --> 00:57:29,270
had a bad breakup with a girlfriend at

1510
00:57:34,630 --> 00:57:30,590
the time and I was kind of going through

1511
00:57:36,640 --> 00:57:34,640
this very sort of angry period in my

1512
00:57:38,110 --> 00:57:36,650
life and and and and I find that there's

1513
00:57:40,600 --> 00:57:38,120
two things that sort of bring out weird

1514
00:57:43,240 --> 00:57:40,610
stuff like paranormal stuff and one is

1515
00:57:45,640 --> 00:57:43,250
being very very coherent and centered in

1516
00:57:48,250 --> 00:57:45,650
through meditation or a dream state or

1517
00:57:51,340 --> 00:57:48,260
just being in a good mood or the other

1518
00:57:54,880 --> 00:57:51,350
is being very unstable and angry and

1519
00:57:57,730 --> 00:57:54,890
upset you know and and in this

1520
00:57:59,170 --> 00:57:57,740
particular instance I had had some other

1521
00:58:01,390 --> 00:57:59,180
weird things already happened to me in

1522
00:58:03,070 --> 00:58:01,400
which I won't even go into here and I

1523
00:58:05,410 --> 00:58:03,080
decided that I was gonna go see a friend

1524
00:58:09,130 --> 00:58:05,420
in central California at the time where

1525
00:58:10,600 --> 00:58:09,140
I grew up and so I and I had a Camaro at

1526
00:58:13,210 --> 00:58:10,610
the time and this car is like I mean

1527
00:58:15,340 --> 00:58:13,220
lowered Camaro tinted windows is this

1528
00:58:18,190 --> 00:58:15,350
like that you know early 90s you know

1529
00:58:19,300 --> 00:58:18,200
it's like a sports car and and you know

1530
00:58:22,780 --> 00:58:19,310
you couldn't fit five quarters

1531
00:58:24,610 --> 00:58:22,790
underneath it and and so I drove this

1532
00:58:25,760 --> 00:58:24,620
icy road to Central California and I was

1533
00:58:27,170 --> 00:58:25,770
on my way back

1534
00:58:29,680 --> 00:58:27,180
and it was like probably three in the

1535
00:58:33,020 --> 00:58:29,690
morning and there's like fog and there's

1536
00:58:36,890 --> 00:58:33,030
you know not snowing but very very cold

1537
00:58:38,830 --> 00:58:36,900
and I'm driving way too fast and and I'm

1538
00:58:41,300 --> 00:58:38,840
driving erratically and I wind up

1539
00:58:44,840 --> 00:58:41,310
swinging my wheel too erratically on an

1540
00:58:46,940 --> 00:58:44,850
icy road and the car starts to spin and

1541
00:58:48,560 --> 00:58:46,950
and I mean and it really spin it yeah I

1542
00:58:51,260 --> 00:58:48,570
was probably doing at least 80 miles an

1543
00:58:52,940 --> 00:58:51,270
hour I would say and and I I was

1544
00:58:55,280 --> 00:58:52,950
spinning on this road which luckily

1545
00:58:57,560 --> 00:58:55,290
there was like very light traffic I do

1546
00:59:00,350 --> 00:58:57,570
not recommend you try this at home and

1547
00:59:02,570 --> 00:59:00,360
and I was actually pinned to my driver's

1548
00:59:04,130 --> 00:59:02,580
side window and I can feel my cheek

1549
00:59:06,170 --> 00:59:04,140
against the glass and and all I said to

1550
00:59:08,240 --> 00:59:06,180
myself was oh my god get me out of this

1551
00:59:12,320 --> 00:59:08,250
I will never do anything so stupid again

1552
00:59:14,080 --> 00:59:12,330
please and the car sort of like just you

1553
00:59:17,000 --> 00:59:14,090
know kept spinning kind of slowed down

1554
00:59:19,460 --> 00:59:17,010
the back bumper barely touched the

1555
00:59:21,650 --> 00:59:19,470
center cement divider between the

1556
00:59:23,810 --> 00:59:21,660
freeways and then it just sort of parked

1557
00:59:26,150 --> 00:59:23,820
itself backwards at the side of the

1558
00:59:28,520 --> 00:59:26,160
freeway and and now that alone is a

1559
00:59:30,680 --> 00:59:28,530
miracle you know and you can you can

1560
00:59:33,740 --> 00:59:30,690
credit that to all kinds of you know God

1561
00:59:35,510 --> 00:59:33,750
angels guardian angels whatever not it

1562
00:59:39,380 --> 00:59:35,520
not immediately my first thought was a

1563
00:59:42,230 --> 00:59:39,390
UFO but and then as I'm sitting there

1564
00:59:45,740 --> 00:59:42,240
and and I'm thinking to myself okay that

1565
00:59:47,690 --> 00:59:45,750
was nuts of the sort of the just thought

1566
00:59:50,450 --> 00:59:47,700
to my head popped in you know first of

1567
00:59:52,490 --> 00:59:50,460
all the car started to vibrate and and

1568
00:59:55,910 --> 00:59:52,500
then a thought popped into my head the

1569
00:59:58,390 --> 00:59:55,920
car is about to fly okay

1570
01:00:00,859 --> 00:59:58,400
oh that's crazy but I blacked out and

1571
01:00:01,250 --> 01:00:00,869
and and I basically just blacked out at

1572
01:00:05,510 --> 01:00:01,260
that point

1573
01:00:07,220 --> 01:00:05,520
and when I came to and by the way I was

1574
01:00:09,050 --> 01:00:07,230
not hurt you know I was not I didn't hit

1575
01:00:11,630 --> 01:00:09,060
my head you know nothing like that and

1576
01:00:14,480 --> 01:00:11,640
and but when I came to I find myself

1577
01:00:16,790 --> 01:00:14,490
staring at this kind of a gray thing

1578
01:00:18,200 --> 01:00:16,800
yeah you know and uh like a wall and I'm

1579
01:00:19,580 --> 01:00:18,210
like what am I looking at and then I

1580
01:00:22,190 --> 01:00:19,590
realized oh I'm looking at the headliner

1581
01:00:24,609 --> 01:00:22,200
of my car okay and then I and then I

1582
01:00:27,140 --> 01:00:24,619
look down in my sort of non spilled

1583
01:00:30,710 --> 01:00:27,150
half-full bottle of water is still in

1584
01:00:32,420 --> 01:00:30,720
the center console open and and and I

1585
01:00:34,970 --> 01:00:32,430
like where the hell am I just all this

1586
01:00:37,460 --> 01:00:34,980
fog around so I I get out of the car and

1587
01:00:39,259 --> 01:00:37,470
I'm standing in this clearing probably

1588
01:00:41,359 --> 01:00:39,269
about 200 feet up and maybe

1589
01:00:44,059 --> 01:00:41,369
a thousand feet or thousand yards or so

1590
01:00:45,289 --> 01:00:44,069
away from the freeway

1591
01:00:47,179 --> 01:00:45,299
you know enough where I'm looking down

1592
01:00:50,749 --> 01:00:47,189
and there's like this line of snaking

1593
01:00:53,509 --> 01:00:50,759
traffic and and and I'm like how the

1594
01:00:55,519 --> 01:00:53,519
hell did I get up here there's no way

1595
01:00:57,289 --> 01:00:55,529
you know because there was no road there

1596
01:00:58,729 --> 01:00:57,299
was no dirt road we're talking about the

1597
01:01:01,549 --> 01:00:58,739
middle of the Tejon pass where it's

1598
01:01:04,489 --> 01:01:01,559
nothing but like grass and and boulders

1599
01:01:07,339 --> 01:01:04,499
and trees and nothing you know and and

1600
01:01:10,009 --> 01:01:07,349
and I'm in a lowered Camaro and so so

1601
01:01:11,329 --> 01:01:10,019
even if I had passed out and the car had

1602
01:01:14,089 --> 01:01:11,339
driven up this there's no way he's gonna

1603
01:01:16,159 --> 01:01:14,099
drive up this like steep hill and and

1604
01:01:17,569 --> 01:01:16,169
and not like completely demolished the

1605
01:01:20,539 --> 01:01:17,579
car the front end was not even messed up

1606
01:01:23,179 --> 01:01:20,549
or anything and and so I was completely

1607
01:01:25,399 --> 01:01:23,189
stunned by that and I kind of walked

1608
01:01:26,599 --> 01:01:25,409
down got on the freehub walked the edge

1609
01:01:28,849 --> 01:01:26,609
of the freeway tried to flag somebody

1610
01:01:31,489 --> 01:01:28,859
down nobody would stop and I finally

1611
01:01:33,799 --> 01:01:31,499
came to a call box and I I called CHP

1612
01:01:36,019 --> 01:01:33,809
they came out and and the weird thing

1613
01:01:38,809 --> 01:01:36,029
about the CHP was that they never even

1614
01:01:40,669 --> 01:01:38,819
asked me how my car got up there it

1615
01:01:43,519 --> 01:01:40,679
achill etup me back around in my car and

1616
01:01:44,899 --> 01:01:43,529
and they called a tow truck and and they

1617
01:01:47,599 --> 01:01:44,909
needed this like big tow truck with a

1618
01:01:49,429 --> 01:01:47,609
flatbed and a winch to like bring my car

1619
01:01:51,139 --> 01:01:49,439
down this hill and they basically in the

1620
01:01:53,449 --> 01:01:51,149
process of dragging it down destroyed

1621
01:01:55,909 --> 01:01:53,459
the a-arms and I mean they had to drag

1622
01:01:57,109 --> 01:01:55,919
it you know and and it was like you know

1623
01:02:00,109 --> 01:01:57,119
thousands is always damaged at that

1624
01:02:03,679 --> 01:02:00,119
point and and I had never been able to

1625
01:02:06,079 --> 01:02:03,689
understand what happened you know and

1626
01:02:08,779 --> 01:02:06,089
and and then years later I actually saw

1627
01:02:12,199 --> 01:02:08,789
a TV show or something about somebody

1628
01:02:13,579 --> 01:02:12,209
talking about dilated time and and the

1629
01:02:15,289 --> 01:02:13,589
fact that like when you have a UFO

1630
01:02:18,829 --> 01:02:15,299
encounters sometimes it seems like as if

1631
01:02:21,079 --> 01:02:18,839
time slows down and and I definitely

1632
01:02:24,469 --> 01:02:21,089
remember having that phenomenon because

1633
01:02:26,029 --> 01:02:24,479
I you know felt like it was taking a

1634
01:02:27,979 --> 01:02:26,039
million years to drive down that road

1635
01:02:30,019 --> 01:02:27,989
and even though I was you know driving

1636
01:02:31,669 --> 01:02:30,029
fast I didn't feel like I was really

1637
01:02:35,839 --> 01:02:31,679
going anywhere so it was it was a very

1638
01:02:37,249 --> 01:02:35,849
bizarre sensation to have and so you

1639
01:02:38,809 --> 01:02:37,259
know I can't explain it

1640
01:02:41,689 --> 01:02:38,819
like I don't know exactly what happened

1641
01:02:43,579 --> 01:02:41,699
you know but it was definitely the

1642
01:02:45,319 --> 01:02:43,589
oddest thing that ever happened to me so

1643
01:02:46,129 --> 01:02:45,329
you know happy to share it on your show

1644
01:02:48,079 --> 01:02:46,139
Wow

1645
01:02:49,849 --> 01:02:48,089
yeah let's thank you for sharing that I

1646
01:02:52,470 --> 01:02:49,859
know it can't be easy I mean my but my

1647
01:02:54,570 --> 01:02:52,480
big thing is speaking to you

1648
01:02:57,240 --> 01:02:54,580
mrs. I wrote a whole book about it I

1649
01:02:59,550 --> 01:02:57,250
interviewed like close to 200 people for

1650
01:03:02,160 --> 01:02:59,560
the book narrowed it down to like maybe

1651
01:03:04,560 --> 01:03:02,170
a little over a dozen and I've heard so

1652
01:03:08,040 --> 01:03:04,570
many stories like yours where there's

1653
01:03:11,910 --> 01:03:08,050
like this oz factor at play during a UFO

1654
01:03:14,520 --> 01:03:11,920
event encounter even just like a um even

1655
01:03:17,400 --> 01:03:14,530
the most mundane UFO sightings this idea

1656
01:03:21,090 --> 01:03:17,410
of time slowing down sometimes speeding

1657
01:03:25,349 --> 01:03:21,100
up or just feeling like you're in this

1658
01:03:27,030 --> 01:03:25,359
weird suspended animation it's yes yes I

1659
01:03:28,620 --> 01:03:27,040
I definitely felt that but I felt that

1660
01:03:30,599 --> 01:03:28,630
actually all around the event both

1661
01:03:32,099 --> 01:03:30,609
before and after because there were

1662
01:03:33,750 --> 01:03:32,109
several things I'm not even going to the

1663
01:03:35,520 --> 01:03:33,760
details of all of the crap that had

1664
01:03:37,170 --> 01:03:35,530
happened like that whole you know sort

1665
01:03:39,720 --> 01:03:37,180
of span of about an eight hour period

1666
01:03:43,170 --> 01:03:39,730
and and you know it's things like the

1667
01:03:44,250 --> 01:03:43,180
the even the CHP officers that you know

1668
01:03:45,920 --> 01:03:44,260
they didn't put me in the backseat they

1669
01:03:48,810 --> 01:03:45,930
put me in the front they they did not

1670
01:03:50,970 --> 01:03:48,820
ever ask me for ID I didn't have any at

1671
01:03:57,480 --> 01:03:50,980
the time I'd actually lost my ID you

1672
01:03:59,130 --> 01:03:57,490
know and and you know that's you know it

1673
01:04:01,710 --> 01:03:59,140
was just so bizarre the whole thing was

1674
01:04:03,240 --> 01:04:01,720
so bizarre it's like like I and I had

1675
01:04:05,310 --> 01:04:03,250
also kind of like an eerie kind of a

1676
01:04:08,580 --> 01:04:05,320
calm about everything you know because I

1677
01:04:10,230 --> 01:04:08,590
was not like especially freaked out you

1678
01:04:11,700 --> 01:04:10,240
know I wasn't like hysterical or

1679
01:04:15,530 --> 01:04:11,710
anything I mean I was just kind of like

1680
01:04:18,630 --> 01:04:15,540
wow this is just a trip you know and and

1681
01:04:20,670 --> 01:04:18,640
it was like everything was in an altered

1682
01:04:22,849 --> 01:04:20,680
sense of space for that whole period and

1683
01:04:25,980 --> 01:04:22,859
and I would like to think that that

1684
01:04:28,530 --> 01:04:25,990
whether it was my own subconscious or a

1685
01:04:30,540 --> 01:04:28,540
higher power or a UFO or whatever it was

1686
01:04:32,940 --> 01:04:30,550
I would like to think that it was acting

1687
01:04:34,650 --> 01:04:32,950
in my my my best good you know because

1688
01:04:36,870 --> 01:04:34,660
it was definitely I could have been

1689
01:04:38,940 --> 01:04:36,880
killed that night you know who knows man

1690
01:04:41,010 --> 01:04:38,950
it could be all of them mixed up

1691
01:04:43,020 --> 01:04:41,020
together that's kinda where my research

1692
01:04:45,870 --> 01:04:43,030
is heading you know in connecting all

1693
01:04:48,180 --> 01:04:45,880
these really weird things paranormal UFO

1694
01:04:49,800 --> 01:04:48,190
supernatural they might be linked they

1695
01:04:53,099 --> 01:04:49,810
might be not might be a case to case

1696
01:04:54,390 --> 01:04:53,109
basis but it's all fascinating and I

1697
01:04:56,220 --> 01:04:54,400
mean I have to tell you man after

1698
01:04:58,109 --> 01:04:56,230
watching your film I'm just like

1699
01:05:00,540 --> 01:04:58,119
obsessed with the remote viewing now I'm

1700
01:05:03,270 --> 01:05:00,550
talking to someone right now who claims

1701
01:05:05,760 --> 01:05:03,280
that they can teach me so your film is

1702
01:05:05,950 --> 01:05:05,770
making that happen is is I think I

1703
01:05:08,290 --> 01:05:05,960
should

1704
01:05:10,510 --> 01:05:08,300
do or not do my own I want it I want to

1705
01:05:12,130 --> 01:05:10,520
point out a great teacher by the name of

1706
01:05:14,079 --> 01:05:12,140
Laurie Williams who appears in our film

1707
01:05:15,870 --> 01:05:14,089
um you know she's the one that was

1708
01:05:18,760 --> 01:05:15,880
teaching the class in Russian in Russian

1709
01:05:21,400 --> 01:05:18,770
yeah and and Laurie Williams runs a

1710
01:05:23,380 --> 01:05:21,410
company called intuitive specialists and

1711
01:05:25,630 --> 01:05:23,390
she has lots of remote viewing classes

1712
01:05:28,450 --> 01:05:25,640
and actually for about a year I've been

1713
01:05:30,460 --> 01:05:28,460
working on a series of classes with

1714
01:05:33,790 --> 01:05:30,470
Laurie she actually came out here to my

1715
01:05:35,620 --> 01:05:33,800
studio in in California and for thirteen

1716
01:05:37,359 --> 01:05:35,630
days we shot a group of about 10 people

1717
01:05:38,440 --> 01:05:37,369
learning how to do remote viewing you

1718
01:05:40,060 --> 01:05:38,450
know who had never done it before and

1719
01:05:42,070 --> 01:05:40,070
she shot she's thought through three

1720
01:05:45,880 --> 01:05:42,080
courses beginning advanced and

1721
01:05:47,890 --> 01:05:45,890
intermediate you know and originally I

1722
01:05:49,240 --> 01:05:47,900
really did not understand just how many

1723
01:05:51,130 --> 01:05:49,250
different things you can use remote

1724
01:05:53,980 --> 01:05:51,140
viewing for and by the time that class

1725
01:05:57,430 --> 01:05:53,990
was over I was like wow this is a master

1726
01:05:59,020 --> 01:05:57,440
class in so many different ways that you

1727
01:06:01,089 --> 01:05:59,030
can actually use remote viewing and

1728
01:06:05,290 --> 01:06:01,099
different techniques to really clarify

1729
01:06:08,200 --> 01:06:05,300
things so well and it works so so yes I

1730
01:06:09,550 --> 01:06:08,210
do recommend you know that you you know

1731
01:06:11,320 --> 01:06:09,560
find an instructor you like and take it

1732
01:06:13,450 --> 01:06:11,330
definitely you can look up intuitive

1733
01:06:16,599 --> 01:06:13,460
specialists and Laurie Williams that she

1734
01:06:18,370 --> 01:06:16,609
is got a lot of integrity you know and

1735
01:06:19,780 --> 01:06:18,380
and I think that that is like the most

1736
01:06:21,960 --> 01:06:19,790
important thing when looking for someone

1737
01:06:24,130 --> 01:06:21,970
to teach you something like this because

1738
01:06:26,560 --> 01:06:24,140
you don't want someone who sounds a

1739
01:06:28,630 --> 01:06:26,570
little scary or or makes this sound to

1740
01:06:30,210 --> 01:06:28,640
be really hard to do or it's gonna cost

1741
01:06:32,560 --> 01:06:30,220
you like an inordinate amount of money

1742
01:06:33,910 --> 01:06:32,570
because I mean I asked Russell like like

1743
01:06:36,099 --> 01:06:33,920
Russell how come you don't teach and he

1744
01:06:37,089 --> 01:06:36,109
says well he says I every now and then

1745
01:06:38,260 --> 01:06:37,099
we'll do a little conference or

1746
01:06:39,910 --> 01:06:38,270
something he says but I don't feel right

1747
01:06:43,060 --> 01:06:39,920
actually trying to charge a lot of money

1748
01:06:44,140 --> 01:06:43,070
for it because it's so easy to do you

1749
01:06:45,430 --> 01:06:44,150
know I can just teach people how to do

1750
01:06:46,120 --> 01:06:45,440
it one time they know how to do it they

1751
01:06:48,790 --> 01:06:46,130
don't need me anymore

1752
01:06:50,829 --> 01:06:48,800
but I still think when after seeing

1753
01:06:52,900 --> 01:06:50,839
Laurie at work I actually think that

1754
01:06:56,410 --> 01:06:52,910
that's a little bit too easy of an

1755
01:06:59,079 --> 01:06:56,420
answer because she digs down so much

1756
01:07:03,370 --> 01:06:59,089
into so many different very detailed

1757
01:07:04,750 --> 01:07:03,380
ways of being able to do this that you

1758
01:07:06,339 --> 01:07:04,760
know it's just below mine the kind of

1759
01:07:08,530 --> 01:07:06,349
techniques that you can use you know it

1760
01:07:09,640 --> 01:07:08,540
really is and and all of those were by

1761
01:07:10,870 --> 01:07:09,650
the way I don't get paid for this I'm

1762
01:07:13,000 --> 01:07:10,880
not I'm not gonna be paid anything for

1763
01:07:14,320 --> 01:07:13,010
her programs but all of her programs

1764
01:07:16,180 --> 01:07:14,330
soon will be available I'm sure on her

1765
01:07:18,130 --> 01:07:16,190
website we're just finishing him up but

1766
01:07:19,500 --> 01:07:18,140
so she does classes in person and on the

1767
01:07:20,550 --> 01:07:19,510
internet and and

1768
01:07:22,020 --> 01:07:20,560
stuff like that and there's other great

1769
01:07:23,790 --> 01:07:22,030
teachers too there's you know there's

1770
01:07:25,860 --> 01:07:23,800
there's Joe McMahon oldest stuff at

1771
01:07:28,770 --> 01:07:25,870
Monroe Institute there's there's Paul

1772
01:07:31,470 --> 01:07:28,780
Smith does stuff there's Marty

1773
01:07:32,910 --> 01:07:31,480
Rosenblatt doing his ARV experiments

1774
01:07:34,890 --> 01:07:32,920
with gamblers you know like he'll he'll

1775
01:07:36,240 --> 01:07:34,900
teach you how to do that stuff easily

1776
01:07:38,220 --> 01:07:36,250
there's there's many ways to do this but

1777
01:07:42,330 --> 01:07:38,230
I just want to caution one thing which

1778
01:07:45,120 --> 01:07:42,340
is stay grounded and find a discipline

1779
01:07:47,130 --> 01:07:45,130
and and and if you're going to change

1780
01:07:50,550 --> 01:07:47,140
your worldview be ready for it to change

1781
01:07:53,520 --> 01:07:50,560
and be ready for a new worldview as to

1782
01:07:54,900 --> 01:07:53,530
how you think of the world because you

1783
01:07:57,120 --> 01:07:54,910
know the most important thing about

1784
01:07:58,560 --> 01:07:57,130
remote viewing is is to not go crazy

1785
01:07:59,970 --> 01:07:58,570
with it you know I don't mean that

1786
01:08:01,950 --> 01:07:59,980
literally crazy I mean you don't don't

1787
01:08:04,080 --> 01:08:01,960
make that your life like incorporate it

1788
01:08:06,900 --> 01:08:04,090
into your life you know because it's a

1789
01:08:09,180 --> 01:08:06,910
great tool to expand your sort of

1790
01:08:11,460 --> 01:08:09,190
intuitive ability and sort of make you a

1791
01:08:13,770 --> 01:08:11,470
better human being and make you a more

1792
01:08:15,000 --> 01:08:13,780
aware human being you know and and it's

1793
01:08:17,910 --> 01:08:15,010
the same thing that all of the Mystics

1794
01:08:21,269 --> 01:08:17,920
did it's it's you know the the Yoga

1795
01:08:25,019 --> 01:08:21,279
Sutras 2,000 years ago you know Pat and

1796
01:08:27,150 --> 01:08:25,029
Johnny said you know along the path of

1797
01:08:28,829 --> 01:08:27,160
your enlightenment you may find that you

1798
01:08:31,530 --> 01:08:28,839
were able to see distant places distant

1799
01:08:32,970 --> 01:08:31,540
people just in things you know amongst

1800
01:08:34,680 --> 01:08:32,980
other things you talked about levitation

1801
01:08:36,300 --> 01:08:34,690
and all this other kind of stuff he said

1802
01:08:38,430 --> 01:08:36,310
but he said don't get caught up in that

1803
01:08:40,410 --> 01:08:38,440
so don't don't like get too concerned

1804
01:08:43,019 --> 01:08:40,420
with that because those are just roadmap

1805
01:08:45,150 --> 01:08:43,029
signposts basically on the path to your

1806
01:08:46,680 --> 01:08:45,160
enlightenment you know and and you know

1807
01:08:48,900 --> 01:08:46,690
it's just part of who you are you know

1808
01:08:51,539 --> 01:08:48,910
and so I think as long as you don't get

1809
01:08:54,690 --> 01:08:51,549
bogged down in it and you don't let it

1810
01:08:56,579 --> 01:08:54,700
overly consume you it's a wonderful tool

1811
01:08:57,990 --> 01:08:56,589
to have in your toolbox and and there's

1812
01:09:01,380 --> 01:08:58,000
some really competent people out there

1813
01:09:02,670 --> 01:09:01,390
that that can teach you about this or

1814
01:09:05,430 --> 01:09:02,680
you can just pick up a good book I mean

1815
01:09:06,960 --> 01:09:05,440
I think one of the best writers is John

1816
01:09:08,220 --> 01:09:06,970
with monocle you know gel mcmoneagle has

1817
01:09:10,590 --> 01:09:08,230
written some wonderful books on this

1818
01:09:12,059 --> 01:09:10,600
subject and then of course Russell's

1819
01:09:15,059 --> 01:09:12,069
books are also wonderful from a

1820
01:09:16,890 --> 01:09:15,069
historical perspective you know so yeah

1821
01:09:19,289 --> 01:09:16,900
there's lots of cool stuff you can do in

1822
01:09:21,960 --> 01:09:19,299
this in this area arena I love it and

1823
01:09:24,720 --> 01:09:21,970
I'm so happy that like this came into my

1824
01:09:26,910 --> 01:09:24,730
life now this whole concept but like you

1825
01:09:29,220 --> 01:09:26,920
said it can start to change your

1826
01:09:31,530 --> 01:09:29,230
paradigm so it's you know once that door

1827
01:09:32,499 --> 01:09:31,540
opens you can't close it so I appreciate

1828
01:09:35,649 --> 01:09:32,509
you know

1829
01:09:38,229 --> 01:09:35,659
the cautionary tale of that and oh yeah

1830
01:09:39,549 --> 01:09:38,239
careful so um yeah you you you want to

1831
01:09:41,019 --> 01:09:39,559
be careful with anything you do you know

1832
01:09:42,609 --> 01:09:41,029
and and it's like you you don't want to

1833
01:09:45,220 --> 01:09:42,619
take it slowly I mean because it's it is

1834
01:09:46,539 --> 01:09:45,230
maybe not for everyone it's for if you

1835
01:09:48,189 --> 01:09:46,549
if you have an interest in it and you

1836
01:09:50,919 --> 01:09:48,199
want to you know you know you want to do

1837
01:09:52,539 --> 01:09:50,929
it then that's that's awesome but but

1838
01:09:54,160 --> 01:09:52,549
you have to you know sort of just take

1839
01:09:56,470 --> 01:09:54,170
it at your own pace and more than

1840
01:09:58,870 --> 01:09:56,480
anything else you you remain grounded

1841
01:10:00,520 --> 01:09:58,880
and and balanced and you know you put

1842
01:10:02,919 --> 01:10:00,530
you put your pants on when one side at a

1843
01:10:04,479 --> 01:10:02,929
time you know it's like it's because it

1844
01:10:07,089 --> 01:10:04,489
can be very world shaking I mean it was

1845
01:10:09,640 --> 01:10:07,099
for me to see this kind of stuff you

1846
01:10:11,080 --> 01:10:09,650
know firsthand as a documentary

1847
01:10:13,240 --> 01:10:11,090
filmmaker you know it's very well

1848
01:10:14,830 --> 01:10:13,250
changing what do you make of all this

1849
01:10:17,649 --> 01:10:14,840
after having done this film and worked

1850
01:10:19,569 --> 01:10:17,659
on it for so long I mean are you are you

1851
01:10:22,509 --> 01:10:19,579
in are you all in when it comes to like

1852
01:10:25,180 --> 01:10:22,519
anyone can do this and that you know

1853
01:10:26,950 --> 01:10:25,190
it's possible I think I think that for a

1854
01:10:29,049 --> 01:10:26,960
lot of people it's a smaller effect size

1855
01:10:32,410 --> 01:10:29,059
I mean I think that some people are

1856
01:10:34,240 --> 01:10:32,420
awesome at it you know I think that you

1857
01:10:37,750 --> 01:10:34,250
know my wife can do it very well you

1858
01:10:40,029 --> 01:10:37,760
know I think that you know I always

1859
01:10:41,740 --> 01:10:40,039
strive to be an enlightened skeptic you

1860
01:10:42,879 --> 01:10:41,750
know not not a dogmatic one not not

1861
01:10:44,140 --> 01:10:42,889
somebody who's just like oh I know that

1862
01:10:45,879 --> 01:10:44,150
doesn't work or I know this does work

1863
01:10:47,319 --> 01:10:45,889
you know I'm not a true believer you

1864
01:10:49,450 --> 01:10:47,329
know but but and I think that it's

1865
01:10:51,790 --> 01:10:49,460
really important that we especially

1866
01:10:53,680 --> 01:10:51,800
these days keep our discernment you know

1867
01:10:55,660 --> 01:10:53,690
like you can't just buy something and

1868
01:10:57,549 --> 01:10:55,670
buy a story whole cloth it's like you

1869
01:10:59,620 --> 01:10:57,559
really have to sort of get into it and

1870
01:11:01,089 --> 01:10:59,630
figure out what it means to you and then

1871
01:11:03,220 --> 01:11:01,099
take what's useful to you and then just

1872
01:11:06,430 --> 01:11:03,230
leave the rest because you know it's

1873
01:11:08,560 --> 01:11:06,440
it's too easy to say oh remote viewing

1874
01:11:10,209 --> 01:11:08,570
is real then every other thing that I

1875
01:11:12,399 --> 01:11:10,219
hear must also be real about this

1876
01:11:14,229 --> 01:11:12,409
subject or some other subject and and

1877
01:11:16,180 --> 01:11:14,239
you know it's like we can't lose our

1878
01:11:17,770 --> 01:11:16,190
discernment you know and in our cohesion

1879
01:11:20,020 --> 01:11:17,780
sort of as a society we have to kind of

1880
01:11:23,350 --> 01:11:20,030
be able to still listen to each other

1881
01:11:25,089 --> 01:11:23,360
you know but at the same time it's

1882
01:11:27,220 --> 01:11:25,099
overwhelming that it's real you know I

1883
01:11:29,500 --> 01:11:27,230
mean it's overwhelming that that there

1884
01:11:31,839 --> 01:11:29,510
is something really going on there that

1885
01:11:33,310 --> 01:11:31,849
science does not understand something

1886
01:11:35,350 --> 01:11:33,320
that has sort of lived in the realm of

1887
01:11:38,200 --> 01:11:35,360
the Mystics but now science is starting

1888
01:11:40,740 --> 01:11:38,210
to catch up with and it's entered it's

1889
01:11:43,990 --> 01:11:40,750
intricately linked to the UFO subject

1890
01:11:45,910 --> 01:11:44,000
because you know again you know our

1891
01:11:47,800 --> 01:11:45,920
consciousness can go anywhere

1892
01:11:49,689 --> 01:11:47,810
and and so it's kind of like I'll bet

1893
01:11:52,030 --> 01:11:49,699
you et has been trying to phone us for

1894
01:11:54,459 --> 01:11:52,040
some time and and we're writing it off

1895
01:11:55,870 --> 01:11:54,469
as noise or a bad dream or you know

1896
01:11:58,240 --> 01:11:55,880
something else and we're not listening

1897
01:12:00,959 --> 01:11:58,250
to the call you know and and we think of

1898
01:12:02,919 --> 01:12:00,969
an advanced society as a strictly

1899
01:12:04,630 --> 01:12:02,929
technological society that must have

1900
01:12:07,030 --> 01:12:04,640
like you know really fast spacecraft and

1901
01:12:09,220 --> 01:12:07,040
stuff like that I'll bet you the the the

1902
01:12:11,500 --> 01:12:09,230
most advanced extraterrestrial cultures

1903
01:12:13,209 --> 01:12:11,510
they don't need spaceships they don't

1904
01:12:15,189 --> 01:12:13,219
need anything they can either sit at

1905
01:12:17,260 --> 01:12:15,199
home and ring you up no matter where you

1906
01:12:20,050 --> 01:12:17,270
are or they can just pop in and out

1907
01:12:23,919 --> 01:12:20,060
because because they've figured out that

1908
01:12:27,220 --> 01:12:23,929
consciousness is the engine and that

1909
01:12:29,890 --> 01:12:27,230
your imagination is the steering wheel

1910
01:12:32,110 --> 01:12:29,900
you know the the the imagination it's

1911
01:12:34,510 --> 01:12:32,120
like if I can imagine something if I can

1912
01:12:35,740 --> 01:12:34,520
see a photograph of it if I can get some

1913
01:12:38,560 --> 01:12:35,750
coordinates that somebody else knows

1914
01:12:40,660 --> 01:12:38,570
about then the evidence says that I can

1915
01:12:42,669 --> 01:12:40,670
somehow basically open up what the

1916
01:12:43,600 --> 01:12:42,679
Hindus would call the Akashic record you

1917
01:12:46,060 --> 01:12:43,610
know which is the record of everything

1918
01:12:47,200 --> 01:12:46,070
and read a page about it you know and

1919
01:12:49,450 --> 01:12:47,210
and I don't even need the specific

1920
01:12:52,030 --> 01:12:49,460
details of what page it's on I have my

1921
01:12:53,830 --> 01:12:52,040
own internal Google you know which is I

1922
01:12:55,689 --> 01:12:53,840
don't know what you know somewhere up in

1923
01:12:58,120 --> 01:12:55,699
consciousness space and I'm able to pull

1924
01:12:59,709 --> 01:12:58,130
it down but I really hope that people

1925
01:13:01,919 --> 01:12:59,719
will check this film out because I think

1926
01:13:04,450 --> 01:13:01,929
that third eye spies is a film that will

1927
01:13:06,550 --> 01:13:04,460
really shake up your your worldview if

1928
01:13:08,800 --> 01:13:06,560
you want it shaken up and and if you

1929
01:13:10,870 --> 01:13:08,810
don't you know it's still in fascinating

1930
01:13:12,880 --> 01:13:10,880
part of US history that nobody really

1931
01:13:16,930 --> 01:13:12,890
knows about in the mainstream and and

1932
01:13:18,850 --> 01:13:16,940
all of this film is basically about word

1933
01:13:19,870 --> 01:13:18,860
of mouth you know so if your audience

1934
01:13:21,939 --> 01:13:19,880
likes this film if you guys were

1935
01:13:23,950 --> 01:13:21,949
listening to this like it please tell a

1936
01:13:25,630 --> 01:13:23,960
friend you know go on our YouTube page

1937
01:13:27,580 --> 01:13:25,640
and subscribe and I'm putting up tons of

1938
01:13:29,680 --> 01:13:27,590
new stuff all the time on this subject

1939
01:13:32,200 --> 01:13:29,690
matter you know you can go to third eye

1940
01:13:33,669 --> 01:13:32,210
spies comm and all the links are there

1941
01:13:35,830 --> 01:13:33,679
if you want like a DVD it's the only

1942
01:13:37,750 --> 01:13:35,840
place you can get it if you want you

1943
01:13:40,270 --> 01:13:37,760
know iTunes or Amazon or Google Play or

1944
01:13:42,010 --> 01:13:40,280
whatever it's worldwide right now we've

1945
01:13:45,430 --> 01:13:42,020
been on the iTunes charts now for almost

1946
01:13:47,530 --> 01:13:45,440
a month in the top 10 you know but still

1947
01:13:49,600 --> 01:13:47,540
even then not that many people have seen

1948
01:13:50,979 --> 01:13:49,610
it yet in in in the grand scheme of

1949
01:13:53,680 --> 01:13:50,989
things it's not really that many people

1950
01:13:55,900 --> 01:13:53,690
you know and and so I think the more

1951
01:13:58,120 --> 01:13:55,910
people that see this the more it makes

1952
01:13:59,860 --> 01:13:58,130
it actually easier not just for the

1953
01:14:02,020 --> 01:13:59,870
subject matter to be embraced but

1954
01:14:03,370 --> 01:14:02,030
it also affects mass consciousness you

1955
01:14:05,230 --> 01:14:03,380
know it actually opens up mass

1956
01:14:07,300 --> 01:14:05,240
consciousness and it says you know oh

1957
01:14:09,070 --> 01:14:07,310
this is easy to do well people can do

1958
01:14:11,710 --> 01:14:09,080
this and then it actually does make it

1959
01:14:13,750 --> 01:14:11,720
easier for people to do it exactly one

1960
01:14:15,700 --> 01:14:13,760
person at a time man I couldn't agree

1961
01:14:18,070 --> 01:14:15,710
more let's open that consciousness let's

1962
01:14:20,020 --> 01:14:18,080
thank you so so much for joining me

1963
01:14:21,130 --> 01:14:20,030
today and somewhere in the skies Thank

1964
01:14:22,630 --> 01:14:21,140
You Ryan it's been a real pleasure

1965
01:14:27,070 --> 01:14:22,640
talking to you thank you for having me

1966
01:14:29,050 --> 01:14:27,080
hopefully we can do it again soon that's

1967
01:14:31,360 --> 01:14:29,060
it for this week's episode again third

1968
01:14:34,360 --> 01:14:31,370
eye spies is now available on iTunes

1969
01:14:36,370 --> 01:14:34,370
with hours of extensive extras to go

1970
01:14:39,490 --> 01:14:36,380
along with the film it's also available

1971
01:14:43,210 --> 01:14:39,500
on Amazon Vimeo and across digital

1972
01:14:44,410 --> 01:14:43,220
platforms worldwide and on demand if

1973
01:14:47,080 --> 01:14:44,420
you're like me and they'd like to keep

1974
01:14:49,900 --> 01:14:47,090
it old-school DVDs and blu-rays are also

1975
01:14:53,350 --> 01:14:49,910
available directly to the website third

1976
01:14:55,810 --> 01:14:53,360
eye spies : there's also a free weekly

1977
01:14:58,570 --> 01:14:55,820
web series called third eyes spies and

1978
01:15:02,110 --> 01:14:58,580
classified unless one is YouTube channel

1979
01:15:04,780 --> 01:15:02,120
waking universe be sure to subscribe to

1980
01:15:07,720 --> 01:15:04,790
get exclusive bonus material from third

1981
01:15:09,850 --> 01:15:07,730
eye spies and so much more if you want

1982
01:15:11,860 --> 01:15:09,860
to hear a very special patreon only

1983
01:15:14,050 --> 01:15:11,870
bonus episode relating to this week's

1984
01:15:16,090 --> 01:15:14,060
conversation with Lance munguia be sure

1985
01:15:18,310 --> 01:15:16,100
to become a patreon subscribers today

1986
01:15:20,860 --> 01:15:18,320
there are many different levels with

1987
01:15:23,230 --> 01:15:20,870
many different rewards help the show out

1988
01:15:25,720 --> 01:15:23,240
get some awesome bonus content in return

1989
01:15:26,890 --> 01:15:25,730
head on over to the patreon page and

1990
01:15:29,890 --> 01:15:26,900
become a patron today

1991
01:15:32,890 --> 01:15:29,900
that's patreon.com/scishow somewhere

1992
01:15:34,570 --> 01:15:32,900
scoffs and now for our rundown you can

1993
01:15:36,220 --> 01:15:34,580
listen to all past episodes read

1994
01:15:38,590 --> 01:15:36,230
articles stay up to date with my

1995
01:15:40,930 --> 01:15:38,600
speaking engagements and share your own

1996
01:15:42,970 --> 01:15:40,940
stories all at the official some of

1997
01:15:46,030 --> 01:15:42,980
these guys website that's somewhere in

1998
01:15:48,190 --> 01:15:46,040
the skies calm be sure to subscribe to

1999
01:15:50,230 --> 01:15:48,200
our growing youtube channel as well just

2000
01:15:51,190 --> 01:15:50,240
search for Ryan Sprague and click

2001
01:15:53,680 --> 01:15:51,200
Subscribe

2002
01:15:56,169 --> 01:15:53,690
we're on twitter at summer skies and

2003
01:15:58,419 --> 01:15:56,179
instagram at summer skies pod

2004
01:16:00,430 --> 01:15:58,429
please take a few moments to subscribe

2005
01:16:02,860 --> 01:16:00,440
rate and review the show and Apple

2006
01:16:05,260 --> 01:16:02,870
podcasts or wherever you get the show

2007
01:16:08,290 --> 01:16:05,270
also check out our official merch store

2008
01:16:10,570 --> 01:16:08,300
by going to T public comm and searching

2009
01:16:14,290 --> 01:16:10,580
for somewhere in the skies that's t ee

2010
01:16:17,290 --> 01:16:14,300
public comm thank you a Zoey's to the e1

2011
01:16:19,450 --> 01:16:17,300
podcast network hello fresh rogue planet

2012
01:16:21,430 --> 01:16:19,460
and most importantly to you for

2013
01:16:23,709 --> 01:16:21,440
listening I'll see you here next week

2014
01:16:26,620 --> 01:16:23,719
and remember keep the feet on the ground

2015
01:16:35,430 --> 01:16:26,630
but never stop searching summer in the

2016
01:17:08,799 --> 01:17:06,570
[Music]

2017
01:17:11,080 --> 01:17:08,809
[Applause]

2018
01:17:12,819 --> 01:17:11,090
somewhere in the skies is produced by

2019
01:17:15,010 --> 01:17:12,829
Third Kind productions in association

2020
01:17:16,569 --> 01:17:15,020
with the entertainment one podcast